Minutes of Main Committee Meeting:
11 September 2001 (M/M3/01)
Chair:
Jane Wilmot
DPTAC
Members:
Peter Barker
Jean Dunlop
Joe Hennessy
Tony Kennan
Janet Kirk
Valerie Lang
Peter Lee
Bert Massie
Jenny Meadows
Cath Simpson
Nick Tyler
Carol Thomas
Observers:
Ann Frye - DTLR Mobility and Inclusion Unit
Paula Morgan - Department of Work and Pensions
Bob Oliver - National Assembly of Wales
David Petheric - DTLR Building Regulations Division
Alan Preston - Department of Regional Development Northern Ireland
Damien Sharp - Scottish Executive
Peta Wright - Chair of DPTAC Aviation Working Group
In
Attendance:
John Nicholls - DPTAC Secretary
Sandra Duncan - DPTAC Secretariat
Ffion Grant - DPTAC Secretariat
Tim Pope - DPTAC Secretariat
Harriet Samuels - DPTAC Secretariat
Caroline Booth - Palantypist for Jane Wilmot
Agenda
Item 1:
Welcome, Introductions and Apologies of Absence
1.
The Committee observed a minutes silence for Peter Field, a much-valued
member of DPTAC, who had recently died.
2.
Jane Wilmot welcomed DPTAC members and observers to the meeting. Attending
for the first time were Bob Oliver (National Assembly for Wales) and Paula
Morgan (Department for Work and Pensions).
3.
Apologies had been received from Jean Ashcroft, Ed Bassford, Sir Peter
Large, Grahame Lawson, Dorothy Rhodes, Paul Everall (David Petheric attended
the meeting in his place), Donald Macdonald and Sue Sharp.
4.
The Chair informed the meeting that the Disability Rights Commission would
be represented by Will Bee at future meetings.
Agenda
Item 2:
Minutes of the Last Meeting (12 June 2001)
5.
The minutes of the meeting were agreed without amendment.
6.
Members were reminded that following approval of the minutes the Secretariat
would arrange for their posting on the DPTAC website.
Action
point 1: Secretariat to make arrangements for the publishing the
DPTAC Main Committee minutes of 12 June on the website.
Agenda
Item 3:
Matters Arising (paper 01/M3/01)
7.
Members were advised of particular issues within the matters arising paper
(01/M3/01 with the agenda).
(i)
Meeting with Sally Keeble on 30 July
8.
Jane Wilmot, Jean Ashcroft and Peter Barker represented DPTAC at a meeting
with Sally Keeble on 30 July 2001. John Nicholls and Tim Pope were in
attendance.
9.
Issues raised included:
- concern
with delay in publishing the SRA Code of Practice;
- concern
over the delay in the DDA taxi accessibility regulations;
- a
request from Sally Keeble to develop benchmarks to measure the delivery
of accessibility.
10.
Subject to parliamentary commitments, Sally Keeble agreed to attend December
MC.
(ii)
Research projects
11.
DPTAC is currently involved in three projects, these are:
- Attitudes
of Disabled People to Transport. MORI have been appointed to complete
the research with an initial meeting planned later in the week. It is
envisaged that the preliminary results of the research will be available
for the December meeting.
- Development
Briefs. Drivers Jonas have been appointed to complete this project,
aimed at developing guidance on including access in the brief for development
projects. Peter Barker and Jean Ashcroft will be involved in the steering
group The project is expected to last until late 2002.
- Access Directory. The University of Reading are undertaking this project aimed
at drawing together advice, guidance and legislation on access standards
in the built environment by mid-2002. Work is due to start in October
2001.
(iii)
Regional seminar
12.
At the preceding Working Groups Chairs meeting, the decision was taken
not to proceed with the regional seminar. Members agreed that it may be
more cost effective to participate in conferences and seminars organised
by other organisations rather than for DPTAC to host its own.
13.
It was agreed that the Committee should also consider alternative methods
of publicising its work and informing disabled people at local level.
Action
point 2: Secretariat to identify opportunities for DPTAC Members
to speak at other organisations' conferences and seminars.
(iv)
Food packaging
14.
Valerie Lang volunteered to become involved in any future work on food
packaging in the travel environment. The Secretariat reported that they
had been unable to identify a government source dealing with this issue.
Action
point 3: Secretariat to make contact with DEFRA regarding food
packaging.
(v)
Emergency egress
15.
John reported that a full report of the fire drill at the June Main Committee
meeting was submitted to the Departments Building Services officials detailing
areas of concern. Members agreed it had been a worthwhile exercise.
Agenda
Item 4:
DPTAC Research Programme for 2002/3 (paper 02/M3/01)
16.
Members considered agenda paper 02/M3/01, which detailed possible research
proposals. The paper also suggested some criteria that could be employed
in taking decisions on which proposals to put forward for funding.
17.
The criteria were agreed but it was suggested that the outcomes and potential
benefits of projects should be seen in terms of short term and long term
impact.
18.
In discussing the proposals for research the following issues were raised:
(i)
Members felt that several items were actions rather than research, and
felt that DPTAC should identify current research being undertaken to
avoid duplication and stimulate other organisations to undertake research
into access issues.
(ii)
It was proposed that DPTAC should discuss research initiatives in the
built environment with DTLR Building Regulations Division and other
parts of DTLR.
(iii)
It was acknowledged that key areas for DPTAC research were education
and training of professionals in transport and the built environment
as well as private hire services, which would take forward the DRTF
recommendation 7.3.
19.
It was agreed that the Chair and Secretariat should take advice on which
research proposals to put forward for funding as the process would start
shortly.
Action
point 4: Secretariat to seek to locate the draft specification
for 'airport buggies' developed by MIU.
Action
point 5: Secretariat to identify research by the Home Office on
consultation processes.
Action
point 6: Secretariat to speak to Dr Sue Warner in the Scottish
Executive Equalities Unit on consultation processes.
Action
point 7: Secretariat to seek to influence other research institutions
to promote accessibility considerations.
Action
point 8: Chair, Secretariat and MIU to discuss research proposals,
identify other sources of funding where appropriate and agree priorities
for DPTAC.
Action
point 9: Members to consider how to address Sally Keeble's request
for advice on benchmarking delivery of accessibility (by 11 October).
Agenda
Item 5:
Implementation of Paragraph 6.5 of the 10 Year Plan for Transport (paper
03/M3/01)
20.
Jane Wilmot reminded the meeting of the contents of paragraph 6.5:
"The
Government is committed to public transport that is accessible to disabled
people. The rate and level of new investment in this Plan will ensure
that improvements in the accessibility of public transport are brought
forward more quickly. Building in accessibility for disabled people in
all new investment is a condition of public money being spent. Local authorities
and transport operators should ensure that the transport needs of disabled
people are factored into their plans and that the full benefits of improved
public transport are accessible to all."
21.
Members were reminded of the importance that DPTAC provide advice to Ministers
on how 6.5 should be implemented, so that momentum is not lost. The paper
was presented as a first draft and comments invited.
22.
During consideration of the paper the following points were made:
- Specific
DTLR funding mechanisms should include urban buses.
- The
outcome of funding streams needed to be evaluated so that applications
for funding did not promise access and then fail to deliver it.
- There
should be an annual review of performance against the 6.5 objective.
- The
evaluation of whether a proposal conformed with the 6.5 commitment should
be quantifiable against a given criteria. DPTAC may have a role in developing
an audit or appraisal process.
- Government
must develop mechanisms for enforcing the 6.5 commitment at specified
stages in a project, e.g. design, construction and project management.
23.
MIU reported that some of the guidance issued since the 10 Year Plan commitment
was made has addressed the need for funding conditional on access for
disabled people. It was suggested that the Chair, Secretariat and MIU
discuss how the advice to Ministers could be most usefully developed.
Action
point 10: Chair, Secretariat and MIU to discuss how to refine
the advice on implementing paragraph 6.5 of Transport 2010 [agenda paper
03/M3/01].
Agenda
Item 6:
New Approach to Appraisal (paper 04/M3/01)
24.
The Chair welcomed Phil Bradburn from DTLR's Integrated Transport Economics
and Appraisal Branch to the meeting.
25.
The Chair reminded the Committee that earlier this year, DPTAC had met
with DTLR officials to discuss the New Approach to Appraisal (NATA) and
the opportunity to incorporate accessibility for disabled people. It was
agreed that DPTAC would make recommendations on how this could be achieved.
Agenda paper 04/M4/01 set out the background to NATA and made some recommendations.
26.
Phil Bradburn explained the role of NATA in enabling decisions to be made
on transport investment decisions and the relative merits of different
proposals.
27.
Comments were invited on the paper, addressing how accessibility might
be included within the process. Issues raised included:
- The
need for a definition of accessibility relating to the needs of disabled
people.
- The
need to address issues relating to disabled people during the appraisal
process.
- The
need for a process for measuring compliance once funding had been approved.
28.
Members were invited to submit comments on the paper by 11 October. It
was agreed the Secretariat would then amend the paper and invite DTLR
to consider how the principles of access could be integrated into the
NATA process.
Action
point 11: Members to comment on the recommendations for incorporating
accessibility for disabled people in NATA [agenda paper 04/M3/01] by 11
October.
Agenda
Item 7:
Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (paper 05/M3/01)
29.
Members noted the paper on the Disability Discrimination Act provisions
relating to transport and the DRTF recommendations.
Agenda
Item 8:
Working/Task Group Reports
30.
The meeting had before it the Working Group summaries paper 06/M3/01.
Matters arising from the paper were:
Aviation
31.
Peta Wright informed the Committee the Aviation WG would be considering
the Passports for Pets scheme at its next meeting. DEFRA, Assistance Dogs
UK and members of the Ports and Ferries WG would be invited to help consider
how the scheme might be adapted for assistance dogs.
Built
Environment
32.
Peter Barker reported the CABE seminar had been postponed until late November
due to poor take up.
Bus
& Coach
33.
Tony Kennan invited the committee to consider two papers, the first of
which concerned the Small Bus Specification (agenda paper 07/M3/01). The
text was nearly finalised and would be agreed at the next Bus and Coach
WG on 27 September. Members were invited to submit any detailed comments
to Tony Kennan by 20 September.
34.
Subject to any amendment at the Bus and Coach WG it was agreed to approve
the Small Bus Specification for publication.
Action
point 12: Members to provide detailed comments on the Small Bus
Specification [agenda paper 07/M3/01] by 20 September.
35.
The second paper was the ATCO Code of Practice on Printed Public Transport
Information (agenda paper 08/M3/01). Tony Kennan introduced the item in
the absence of Ed Bassford, who was more closely involved.
36.
Members were concerned by the wording regarding a minimum 8 point size.
It was recognised that 14 point would not always be practical if handy
timetables were required but 8 point would not be acceptable if alternative
formats were not available. It was agreed to strengthen the emphasis on
alternative formats being available and invite comment on the draft from
RNIB.
37.
There was also some concern that the wording on letter cases was confusing
and inconsistent with recommended good practice. It was agreed to suggest
changing the text on 3.5.1 to emphasise the use of upper and lower case
lettering.
38.
It was agreed appendix three should be omitted as it contradicted some
earlier advice and was not specific to the particular requirements of
printed timetables.
39.
Subject to the above amendments and agreement from the Bus & Coach WG
it was agreed to endorse the ATCO document.
Action
point 13: Carol Thomas to invite comments from RNIB on the ATCO
Code of Practice on Printed Public Transport Timetable Information.
Action
point 14: Tony Kennan to amend section 2.1 ensuring alternative
formats are available and section 3.5.1 on the use of upper and lower
case letters.
40.
In response to a query on yellow buses, it was reported that the trials
comprised two vehicles in Calderdale to the best of the Working Group's
knowledge. This was significantly less than the 100 vehicles previously
envisaged.
41.
Peter Barker reported on his visit to the trial of the audible announcements
on buses with Tony Kennan. The system had proved extremely useful and
resulted in very few complaints. It was agreed that this issue should
continue to be pursued.
Personal
Mobility
42.
Members considered the position statement on walking (agenda paper 09/M3/01).
It was agreed that the Personal Mobility WG should consider whether to
post this item on the website and how it will be used in discussions with
DTLR.
Action
point 15: PMWG to consider whether to publish the position paper
on walking on the DPTAC website.
Ports
& Ferries
43.
Joe Hennessey reported that Caledonian MacBrayne were building three new
ferries to the DPTAC guidance and the Chamber of Shipping would be working
with its members to promote the guidance.
Rural
44.
John Nicholls reported that the death of Peter Field has left a huge gap
in the rural task force as he was completing much of the drafting. There
remained a substantial amount of work to do in pulling together the good
practice material and fleshing out the draft report.
Action
point 16: Secretariat to arrange for the drafting of the rural
task group and circulate to task group members for information.
Taxis
45.
Jean Dunlop reported on a useful visit to Crowthorne to examine the current
standards of accessibility of taxi vehicles. Each vehicle on offer has
some access barriers.
46.
The taxi working group had also begun to develop advice on private hire
services.
47.
The revised advice to taxi drivers leaflet (agenda paper 10/M3/01) was
agreed subject to minor amendments and proof reading to ensure it was
current.
48.
It was agreed there was a need for more detailed advice to drivers. It
was suggested that the former DETR video for taxi drivers would still
be useful. The Secretariat was asked to investigate whether taxi manufacturers
would be willing to fund additional copies.
Action
point 17: Secretariat to amend and proof read the advice to taxi
drivers leaflet prior to publication.
Action
point 18: Secretariat to discuss with taxi manufacturers support
for producing additional copies of the former DETR video.
Agenda
Item 9:
Any Other Business
Social
Exclusion Unit investigation into transport (paper 11/M3/01)
49.
It was agreed that DPTAC would be more effective if it considered alternative
ways of contributing to the Social Exclusion Unit research rather than
completing the questionnaire. It was agreed that the Secretariat should
arrange for the Chair to meet with the SEU.
Action
point 19: Secretariat to contact the SEU regarding DPTAC's input
to the Social Exclusion and Transport Study.
2002
meeting calendar
50.
The draft meeting calendar for 2002 was included with the agenda. There
were on-going discussions regarding the dates and working methods of DPTAC.
Date
of next Main Committee meeting 4 December 2001
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