Chair:
Jane Wilmot OBE
DPTAC Members:
Jean Ashcroft MBE
Peter Barker OBE
Ed Bassford
Jean Dunlop
Rubina Hassanali
Tony Kennan
Cllr Janet Kirk
Valerie Lang MBE
Sir Peter Large CBE
Peter Lee
Grahame Lawson
Bert Massie CBE
Jenny Meadows
Dorothy Rhodes MBE
Cath Simpson
Nick Tyler
Carol Thomas
Richard West
Observers:
William Bee - Disability Rights Commission
Paul Everall - DTLR Building Regulations Division
Ann Frye - DTLR Mobility and Inclusion Unit
Paula Morgan - Department of Work and Pensions
Alan Preston - Department of Regional Development Northern Ireland
Sue Sharp - DTLR Mobility and Inclusion Unit
Richard Lyall - Scottish Executive
Peta Wright - Chair of DPTAC Aviation Working Group
In Attendance:
Tim Pope - DPTAC Secretary
Sandra Duncan - DPTAC Secretariat
Ffion Grant - DPTAC Secretariat
Harriet Samuels - DPTAC Secretariat
Caroline Booth - Palantypist for Jane Wilmot
Mark Cooke - Interpreter for Richard West
Agenda Item 1:
Welcome, introductions and apologies of absence
1. Jane Wilmot welcomed DPTAC members, observers and guest speakers to the meeting. She particularly welcomed Will Bee of the Disability Rights Commission and Gary Kemp, the new Secretariat member to their first meeting.
2. Apologies had been received from Joe Hennessey and Bob Oliver (National Assembly for Wales).
Agenda Item 2:
Minutes of the last meeting (11 September 2001)
3. The following amendments to the minutes were agreed:
- On page 1 and 2, Paula Morgan would replace Janet Morgan as the observer from the Department for Work and Pensions.
- Under paragraph 43 on page 10, the spelling of Caledonian MacBrayne would be corrected
4. Subject to these amendments the minutes of the meeting were agreed.
Action point 1: Secretariat to amend minutes of 11 September meeting to record Paula Morgan as the observer from the Department of Work and Pensions and amend the spelling of Caledonian MacBryne.
Action point 2: Secretariat to ensure minutes of the 11 September meeting are placed on the website by 31 December.
Agenda Item 3:
Matters Arising (paper 01/M4/01)
5. Members were advised of particular issues within the matters arising paper to note (01/M4/01 with the agenda).
(i) Food packaging
6. Jean Ashcroft reported that she had been involved in an article on food packaging and access for disabled people, published by Packing News. The article appeared to give the impression there was no longer a problem due to the efforts of the industry, which was a disappointment to members. However, it did include additional contacts that might be followed up.
Action point 3: Secretariat to circulate 'Packaging News' article to Members with meeting minutes (paper M2/M4/01).
(ii) Conferences
7. The Chair reported that she had recently chaired a conference on behalf of a commercial conference organiser concerning 'getting it right for disabled users of local government services'. The conference had gone well and DPTAC will seek to undertake more of this type of activity in the future.
(iii) Research
8. The Chair reported that since the last meeting the Secretariat had, on behalf of DPTAC, put forward two projects for DTLR funding. The first concerned an investigation of the skills and competencies necessary for the delivery of the Government's commitments on accessibility and whether these were available. The second concerned the investigating the mechanisms for increasing the availability of private hire vehicles, which was a recommendation of the Disability Rights Task Force.
9. Ministers will be considering all DTLR research funding requests together, so specific funding for DPTAC is not guaranteed. However, the Chair was hopeful of funding for at least one of the projects.
(iv) Small Bus Specification
10. The Chair reported that the DPTAC Small Bus Specification was in the process of being printed and should be published that week.
Action point 4: Secretariat to circulate the 'DPTAC Accessibility Specification for Small Buses' to all members when published.
(v) Blue Badge Review
11. The Chair informed the Committee, in confidence, that Ministers had requested DPTAC to review responses to a DTLR discussion document on the review of the Blue Badge Scheme and make firm recommendations for its improvement in Spring 2002.
12. DPTAC would issue a press release at the start of the consultation period, probably in mid-December. The discussion document would cover a wide range of issues relevant to the operation of the Blue Badge Scheme.
13. It would be for the new committee to consider responses to this consultation and make recommendations early next year.
Agenda Item 4:
Working/Task Group Reports
14. The meeting had before it the Working Group summaries paper 02/M4/01. Matters arising from the paper were:
Aviation
(i) Guidance for flyers
15. The Guidance for flyers presented at the meeting (agenda paper 03/M4/01) would be amended to reflect changes to the DTLR Code of Practice on Access to Air Travel. These changes were the result of public consultation earlier in the year and were currently being considered by the DTLR working party, which includes representation from DPTAC.
16. DTLR confirmed that the Code of Practice incorporates best practice for the aviation industry on meeting the needs of disabled people. The DPTAC guidance has a different role and will focus on information and tips for disabled flyers.
17. Members were invited to make comments on the draft and it was agreed that the Secretariat would ensure the document was published in conjunction with the DTLR Code and was consistent with its content. It was noted that the DPTAC guidance would be shorter than the DTLR Code and written in plain English.
Action point 5: Members to send comments on the Guidance on Flyers (agenda paper 03/M4/01) by 31 December 2001.
Action point 6: Secretariat and Peta Wright to ensure the guidance is published in line with the DTLR voluntary Code of Practice on Access to Air Travel for Disabled People.
(ii) Accessible toilets on aircraft
18. Members were invited to make comments on the draft specification on accessibility of aircraft toilets. There was general agreement that the thrust of the guide was good but that some minor amendments, such as checking consistency, should be made prior to publication for consultation.
19. Following Members comments, it was agreed that the Secretariat should issue the document for consultation early in the New Year to enable a final version to be considered by the new committee.
Action point 7: Members to send comments on 'Accessible Toilets on Aircraft' to the Secretariat by 31 December 2001.
Action point 8: Secretariat, in consultation with the Chair, to issue the document for consultation early in 2002.
Built Environment
20. The draft revisions to Part M of the Building Regulations were recognised as a significant improvement on current requirements. The work of Sir Peter Large, Secretariat and collaboration with the Disability Rights Commission (DRC) were recognised in achieving these improvements.
Bus & Coach
(i) ATCO Code of Practice on printed public transport information
21. DPTAC had commented on the ATCO Code over the last few months. However, ATCO had difficulties in making the resources available to complete the Code.
22. Originally, the ATCO Code was to cover all local public transport but there were continuing difficulties in securing agreement from the rail industry. Therefore, ATCO proposed that the Code be published as a guide to local authorities on completing their bus information strategies, required under the Transport Act 2000.
23. Members were concerned by the continued delay in finalising the Code but equally concerned that DPTAC should not be asked to endorse a document when it has not seen the final version.
24. Members were also keen that the Code should appeal to bus operators as well as local authorities and recorded disappointment that rail interests could not be included.
25. As a way forward, it was suggested that ATCO forward the latest draft to DPTAC Members for comment as soon as possible. These comments would be considered by the Chair of the Bus & Coach Working Group, DPTAC Chair and Peter Barker and if outstanding issues remain, the document would not be endorsed but debated further by the new committee.
26. It was agreed that DPTAC should not rush to a decision on endorsement, particularly as the cause of the delay was with ATCO.
Action point 9: Ed Bassford to forward the Secretariat the latest draft of the ATCO Good Practice Guide for Printed Public Transport Timetable Information.
Action point 10: Members to comment on the draft ATCO Code, forwarded by the Secretariat, by 31 December 2001.
Action point 11: Tony Kennan, Jane Wilmot and Peter Barker to determine whether to endorse the ATCO Guide or defer until April 2002 for further discussion.
(ii) Conduct Regulations
27. Conduct regulations requiring drivers to offer assistance to passengers are currently with DTLR's legal advisers but are expected to come into force early in the New Year.
28. Ministers had decided that it might be onerous to require kneeling at every stop, without evidence of the impact on the industry and on passengers. Trials were currently in the process of being established to provide evidence of the impact and would probably last twelve months. DTLR were waiting on the Confederation of Passenger Transport (CPT) to nominate routes for the trials. If CPT fail to identify routes then DTLR will seek operators willing to offer routes and agree those chosen for trials will be agreed with CPT.
(iii) Ramps and ramp angles
29. DTLR were waiting for information from the Society of Motor Manufacturers (SMMT) regarding what ramp angles were currently being achieved. The industry was concerned that a 7º angle might not be achievable, particularly where vehicles had access in the centre. In this situation, agreement to allow an 8º angle was being sought.
30. In initial trials at the Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) it was discovered that the design of the ramps, particularly between sections, might have more influence rather than a minor change in angles.
31. Further discussions would be undertaken between MIU and the industry on encouraging improved ramp design.
(iv) Publicity
32. It was agreed that there was a need to educate users to ensure they asked drivers to kneel buses if required and to be aware of the general improvements in accessibility over recent years.
33. It was agreed that industry needed to do more to market accessible bus services to maximise the value of their investments. Previous DPTAC work had focussed on the industry and supply of accessible vehicles, so discussions would take place with the Mobility and Inclusion Unit (MIU) on raising the awareness of users.
Education and training
34. The Chair reported briefly that the group had met on 26 November and agreed to produce a Charter as the basis of discussion with the professional institutes. It would be short and snappy promoting the concept of inclusive design.
Personal mobility
(i) Quality Streetscapes
35. A further meeting of the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment (CABE) steering group on quality streetscapes was held on 21 November. A note of the meeting would be circulated shortly.
Action point 12: Grahame Lawson to circulate a note of the recent CABE research steering group meeting to members before 31 December.
(ii) World Squares for All
36. DPTAC had objected to the World Squares for All traffic order in respect of the 7 accessible parking places being provided. In response, six additional spaces had been offered so the objection was withdrawn.
Rail
(i) Rail Exemptions
37. It was reported that applications for exemptions appeared to be settling into a format where they were either specific situations, such as funicular railways, or extending previous exemptions.
38. Discussions were underway on how to discourage last minute applications by train operators for extending previous exemptions.
(ii) St Pancras
39. Following a further presentation by Rail Link Engineering (RLE) on the proposals for St Pancras station which did not fully meet the needs of disabled people to agreed national standards, DPTAC confirmed its strong advice that RLE should employ a professional access consultant.
(iii) Flexible Space Working Group
40. Jean Ashcroft and Peter Barker representing DPTAC on the Strategic Rail Authority (SRA) Flexible Space Working group reported on issues relating to how space could be provided for a range of users and uses, such as storage of bicycles and luggage.
41. DPTAC stressed that the RVAR regulations require a wheelchair space to be provided and that this space was not flexible for other uses. Members commented that it is often impossible for wheelchair users to move other users, luggage or bicycles out of the wheelchair space.
42. It was recognised that powers were limited for staff in this area but that any extension of the Disability Discrimination Act linking Part III and V provisions would be useful in ensuring this space remained for wheelchair users.
Rural
43. Members had before them agenda paper 06/M4/01, which outlined a draft report on rural issues. The Chair introduced the report, saying that the death of Peter Field and departure of John Nicholls had had a huge impact on the completion of the report. However, the Secretariat had secured additional resources to help draft this paper and it would be desirable to complete the report as soon as possible.
44. Members were invited to make comments on the report. The main issues raised were that the order of the document could be improved, highlighting the problems facing disabled people earlier in the report and that Appendix D would need to be carefully considered to ensure case studies were relevant and accurate.
45. Members were requested to make detailed comments by 4 January 2002.
Action point 13: Members to send further comments on the Rural Paper (agenda paper 06/M4/01) to the Secretariat by 4 January 2002.
Action point 14: Secretariat to finalise the rural paper and clear with the Chair for publication.
Agenda Item 5:
MIU Updates (paper 07/M4/01)
46. Members had before them paper 07/M4/01 providing an update on DDA accessibility regulations, DRTF recommendations, monitoring the 6.5 commitment in the 10 year plan and transport friendly wheelchairs.
47. There were no further developments in respect of Taxi Accessibility Regulations. Options would be put to Ministers and would raise awareness of the growing second hand market of more accessible vehicles. The central problem remained the difficulty in providing a specification that met the needs of all disabled people. Transport for London were consulting on conditions of fitness for Taxis which could impact on future regulations.
48. Good progress had been made on the Disability Rights Task Force transport recommendations and DTLR were planning to consult early in the New Year.
49. As the paper made clear, the anti-terror legislation made in difficult to ensure there would be a legislative slot for disability issues. There would not be a slot for transport legislation due to the recent Transport Act 2000.
50. However, there was a significant amount that could be done with secondary legislation, possibly with Regulatory Reform Orders, Codes of Practice and guidance. In addition, industry procedures (e.g. through the 'Rail Rule Book') could be looked at to advance some of the recommendations.
51. It was confirmed that the 10 Year Plan for Transport period started in April 2001 and would run until March 2011.
Action point 15: Ann Frye to arrange for DPTAC to receive a copy of the Transport for London consultation for comments on conditions of fitness for Taxis.
Agenda Item 6:
MORI Presentation (paper 08/M4/01)
52. The Chair welcomed Carol Lehman, Rebecca Klahr and Hannah Gray from MORI. Carol Lehman made a presentation to the Committee on their initial findings from the focus groups and first 100 surveys. She stressed that these were early results and should not be taken as an indication of the final findings.
53. Details of the presentation are included in attachment M3/M4/01.
54. Members raised queries relating to the sampling technique, multiple disabilities, language and semantics used in the presentation and report, those that do not travel and the street environment. There was a debate on the sampling process and age profile of respondents.
55. The final results would be presented to DPTAC in January.
Action point 16: Members to feedback initial comments to the Secretariat on the MORI research into disabled people's attitudes towards transport.
Action point 17: Rubina Hassanali to provide details of the Department of Health research on disabled people.
Agenda Item 7:
Strategy 2002-4 (paper 09/M4/01)
56. Members had before them paper 09/M4/04 setting out a draft strategy for recommendation to the new committee.
57. In introducing the paper the Chair said that with a new committee in place form 2002 there was an opportunity to develop a framework strategy for the work of the committee over the next cycle. The strategy was developed in conjunction with the Working Group Chairs and aims to focus the work of DPTAC around some strategic priorities.
58. There was limited time for discussion at the meeting so members were requested to send detailed comments to the Secretariat.
59. Points emerging from the limited discussion raised concern over the amount of work proposed and ability of the new committee to deliver the strategy. However there was general support for the strategy.
60. An additional concern was raised over the ability of DPTAC to deliver on some of the tasks where it did not have executive authority or responsibility. The Secretariat would revise the wording to reflect DPTAC's advisory role in these areas.
61. DRC welcomed the strategy and the aim to work closely together over the coming period. Their focus would be on increasing awareness of disabled people's rights and linking Part III and V of the Disability Discrimination Act. DPTAC would be involved in the drafting of the DRC thematic paper on transport to be discussed at the DRC January Commissioners meeting.
Action point 18: Members to feedback comments on DPTAC Strategy to the Secretariat by 31 December.
Agenda Item 8:
Working Structure (paper 10/M4/01)
62. Members had before them paper 10/M4/10 setting out a proposed working structure for the new committee. Due to the pressure of time this was not discussed.
63. However, the Chair in introducing the paper said that earlier in the year, Working Group Chairs reflected on a concern from the Secretariat that DPTAC's workload was becoming unmanageable. Concern centred on too much time being spent preparing for meetings duplicating discussion across working groups. There was a clear need to focus the work of DPTAC on specific objectives and to develop different ways of working.
64. The changes set out in the paper are intended to make more effective use of scarce Member and Secretariat resources. They will be presented to the new committee in January, and if adopted, will operate for at least the first year before being reviewed.
65. In summary, it envisages moving to bi-monthly Main Committee meetings, replacing working groups with fewer meetings on specific tasks, assigning lead DPTAC Members on particular issues to co-ordinate activities and developing 'knowledge pools' of interested people with which to consult.
66. Practical proposals for managing workload were also proposed, such as a weekly mail out for Members. If successful the new structure should allow more time for DPTAC Members to debate strategic issues.
Agenda Item 9:
Annual Report
67. Members had before them paper 11/M4/01 setting out a draft Annual Report. This was not discussed but the Chair reminded Members DPTAC has a statutory duty to produce an Annual Report and it is recommended good practice this is completed within three months. Previous Annual Reports have been delayed and lengthy.
68. DPTAC's Annual Report for 2001 is expected to be shorter, more snappy and produced earlier in 2002. The paper represented a first draft and Members were requested to make detailed drafting comments by 31 December.
Action point 19: Members to feedback comments on the DPTAC Annual Report to the Secretariat by 31 December.
Agenda Item 10:
Any other business
69. The Chair thanked all committee Members and Observers for their contributions over the last three years which had seen DPTAC make some significant progress towards an accessible travelling and built environment.
Date of next Main Committee meeting: 30/31 January 2002
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