Minutes of Main Committee Meeting:
10 April 2002 (M/M2/02)
Chair:
Jane Wilmot OBE
DPTAC
Members:
Sian Baldwin
Peter Barker
Ann Bates
Mike Bruton
Vidur Dindayal
Jean Dunlop
David Finnegan
Cllr Janet Kirk
Peter Lee
Grahame Lawson
Jenny Meadows
Tom Pey
David Pugh
Richard West
Glyn Vernon
Observers:
Paul Everall - DTLR Building Regulations Division
Ann Frye - DTLR Mobility and Inclusion Unit
Pip Hesketh - Disability Rights Commission
Richard Lyall - Scottish Executive
Paula Morgan - Department of Work and Pensions
Alan Preston - Department of Regional Development Northern Ireland
Sue Sharp - DTLR Mobility and Inclusion Unit
Mike Spearing - National Assembly for Wales
In
Attendance:
Tim Pope - DPTAC Secretary
Sandra Duncan - DPTAC Secretariat
Ffion Grant - DPTAC Secretariat
Gary Kemp - DPTAC Secretariat
Harriet Samuels - DPTAC Secretariat
Mike Byron for Glyn Vernon
Karen Newby - Interpreter for Richard West
Ben Phillips - Interpreter for Richard West
Susie Romero - Palantypist for Jane Wilmot
For
item 8 only:
John Wicks - MVA Consultants
Juliette Harrison - MVA Consultants
Agenda
Item 1:
Welcome, introductions and apologies of absence
1.
Jane Wilmot welcomed DPTAC members and observers to the meeting.
2.
Apologies had been received from Jean Ashcroft, Carol Thomas, Keith Richards
and Tom Pey, who arrived late. Pip Hesketh attended in place of Will Bee
(DRC) and Richard Lyall attended in place of Damian Sharp (Scottish Executive).
3.
The Chair explained to the observers that prior to the meeting the Committee
had a brief closed session to explain how the committee works as this
was the first meeting of the new membership.
4.
The Chair also explained that there was a new experimental layout of the
meeting to address concern that too many people were around the table
previously. Although observers were at a separate table, everyone was
invited to contribute to the meeting.
Agenda
item 2:
Minutes of the last meeting (4 December 2001)
5.
The minutes of the meeting of 4 December 2001 were agreed without amendment.
6.
The Chair explained that these minutes would now be placed on the web
site.
7.
The note of the 30/31 January induction meeting were also approved without
amendment but these would not be placed on the web site. The Secretariat
would circulate copies of the presentations made at the briefing meetings
over the last three months.
Action
Point 1: Secretariat to ensure minutes of the 4 December 2001 meeting
are available on the DPTAC web site.
Action
Point 2: Secretariat to circulate copies of presentations from the
briefings.
Agenda
item 3:
Matters arising (paper 01/M2/02)
(i)
ATCO Code of Practice on printed timetable information
8.
Peter Lee reported that following the discussion in the previous meeting,
final comments had been submitted to ATCO on the Code and all but one
recommendation had been accepted. It was agreed the Secretariat would
check on progress for publication.
Action
Point 3: Secretariat to check progress on publication of the Association
of Transport Co-Ordinating Officers (ATCO) Code on printed public transport
information.
(ii)
Drivers conduct regulations
9.
Ann Frye reported that regulations governing the conduct of public service
vehicle drivers were currently with lawyers but were expected to be laid
before the end of April.
10.
MIU are hoping to commission a video and leaflet explaining the purpose
of the regulations to drivers. It was agreed that DPTAC should be involved
in the development of this guidance.
Action
Point 4: MIU to involve DPTAC in developing a leaflet and video on
public service vehicle drivers conduct regulations.
(iii)
Rural report
11.
The Chair explained that the draft Rural Report was very long and made
very few clear conclusions or recommendations. It was agreed that a summary
report setting out the key issues and identifying areas for further study
would be more effective. This would be produced by the Secretariat and
cleared with the Chair.
Action
Point 5: Secretariat to draft a summary note of the rural report for
agreement by the Chair.
Action
Point 6: DPTAC to consider rural issues in its future work programme.
(iv)
Mobility and Access Committee for Scotland
12.
Richard Lyall was invited to explain progress on the establishment of
the Mobility and Access Committee for Scotland. He explained that membership
had been agreed and that a press release would be issued on 24 April.
Attachment M2-M2-02 is a copy of the press release announcing the launch
of MACS.
Agenda
item 4:
Work Programme Progress Report
13.
Members had before them agenda paper 02/M2/02 that provided an update
on progress against the work programme. Members also had an update from
MIU (attachment M3-M2-02).
14.
Members agreed the priorities in the work programme until the June Main
Committee, acknowledging the heavy workload, and noted the progress already
made.
15.
The Chair requested that all Members should make every effort to make
responses to the Secretariat when invited to comment on consultation documents.
It was agreed that confirmation Members wished to make no comment would
be useful.
16.
MIU reported on the successful launch of the wheelchair accessible coach
trial on the London-Heathrow-Bath route and suggested Members try the
service. Richard West agreed to provide comments on the information services
provided by National Express on all their services.
17.
The need for toilet breaks were discussed and it was this type of issue
which the trial was aiming to identify prior to the introduction of regulations
for all new coaches in 2005.
18.
MIU also reported that the DTLR Air Access Code should be published late
summer but requested that the DPTAC consultation on accessible toilets
be delayed until after this publication.
Action
Point 7: Richard West to comment on National Express's passenger information
related to the wheelchair accessible coach trial.
Action
Point 8: Secretariat to delay consultation on accessible toilets on
aircraft until publication of the DTLR Air Access Code.
(i)
Guidance for flyers
19.
Members noted the draft guidance as a very comprehensive document but
recognised that it would need amendment to be in line with the DTLR Code
of Practice.
20.
The original intention of the DPTAC guidance was to explain the purpose
and intention of the DTLR Code to disabled people. It was suggested that
the DPTAC guidance should fulfil a different role in giving very useful
information on what to expect when flying but a condensed version may
also now be necessary.
21.
It was agreed that the Chair, Lead Member and Secretariat should discuss
a practical way forward to ensure information was available in the most
effective form for disabled flyers.
Action
Point 9: Secretariat, Chair and Lead Member to consult MIU on the
format of DPTAC Guidance to Flyers.
(ii)
Education and training charter
22.
Members welcomed the draft Charter included with the agenda papers. It
was agreed that detailed comments would be feed into the Secretariat in
time for the next Education and training working group, where the Charter
would be approved.
23.
The purpose of the Charter was to provide the basis for discussion with
education and training organisations on improving awareness and understanding
of access issues among the professions.
Action
Point 10: Members to submit detailed comments on the education and
training charter by 30 April.
Agenda
item 5:
10 year Plan Review (agenda paper 03/M2/02)
24.
Members considered agenda paper 03/M2/02 which set out draft comments
on the DTLR 10 Year Plan process.
25.
Concerns were expressed about the awareness among disabled people of the
availability of accessible services, wider mobility training to encourage
use and the need for inclusive design principles to underpin funding decisions.
26.
It was agreed that Members would submit comments on the draft to the Secretariat
by 30 April so that comments could be fed into DTLR.
27.
The Chair also reported on a meeting she had had with DTLR and London
Underground regarding the future funding arrangements. It was agreed that
a note of this meeting should be circulated with the minutes.
Action
Point 11: Members to submit detailed comments on the ten year plan
review by 30 April.
Action
Point 12: Chair and Secretariat to finalise comments on the ten year
plan review and send to DTLR.
Action
Point 13: Secretariat to circulate a note of the meeting between the
Chair, DTLR and London Underground Limited.
Agenda
item 6:
Blue Badge Scheme Review (agenda paper 04/M2/02)
28.
Members and observers were circulated agenda paper 04/M4/04 which contained
draft interim recommendations for discussion. This paper was for discussion
only and in confidence to Members.
29.
MVA reported on their analysis of the initial responses to the DTLR discussion
document to help inform discussion. Members then discussed the four areas
in the discussion document, these being eligibility, administration, concessions
and enforcement.
30.
It was agreed that Members would provide further comments on the review
and be ready to comment on the final draft over the weekend of 26 April.
A sub-group of Members would meet on 23 April to help develop the final
draft.
31.
DPTAC were aiming to deliver the final recommendations to Ministers by
the end of April or early May. The Government would then consider these
recommendations before coming forward with their proposals to amend the
Scheme.
Action
Point 14: Members to provide further comments, including confirmation
of no comment, on the Blue Badge Review recommendations, expecting;
the final analysis from MVA on 22 April.
the final draft recommendations from DPTAC on 26 April.
Action
Point 15: DPTAC Blue Badge Focus Group to refine the recommendations
on the review on 23 April.
Action
Point 16: Secretariat to amend recommendations and circulate a final
draft for comment on 26 April.
Action
Point 17: Secretariat and Lead Member to agree final recommendations
and send to Ministers.
Agenda
item 7:
People with Mental Health Problems (agenda paper 05/M2/02)
32.
The Chair introduced the background to agenda paper 05/M2/02 covering
people with Mental Health Problems. Its purpose was to ensure the Committee
was aware of the relevant issues and to consider how to ensure its advice
covered the needs of all disabled people.
33.
The paper had been developed with the help of MIND and introduced by David
Pugh. The main issue of concern was eligibility for concessionary bus
passes.
34.
The Committee agreed that there was both an issue with concessionary fares
and with mental health issues in relation to transport generally. It was
agreed that MIND should be invited to submit their evidence on concessionary
fares at a future meeting. It was also agreed that mental health issues
should underpin the advice of the Committee and that developing links
and knowledge in this area would be necessary.
Action
Point 18: Secretariat to circulate a note in the mailing on DTLR Free
Literature.
Action
Point 19: Secretariat to invite MIND to inform DPTAC of their findings
on interpretation of concessionary fares guidance at a future meeting.
Agenda
item 8:
Definition of Accessibility (agenda paper 06/M2/02)
35.
Members considered the agenda paper 06/M2/02 which set out the need to
work towards a definition of accessibility. It was agreed that further
work was needed in this area before the next Main Committee meeting in
June.
36.
There was a wide ranging discussion on different approaches to accessibility.
Some of the key points to emerge were;
- a
need to 'eliminate' barriers to access,
- define
the boundaries of any definition (for example only relate it to the
built environment and transport not products),
- consider
both the design and operation,
- include
ease of use as a key principle.
37.
It was agreed that a meeting specifically on this issue should be held
on 21 May to further develop a paper for consideration at the next meeting.
Action
Point 20: Members to submit comments on a definition of accessibility
by 8 May and confirm if they wish to participate in further work in this
area.
Action
Point 21: Secretariat to arrange a meeting on 21 May to discuss a
definition of accessibility with Members and other stakeholders.
Action
Point 22: DPTAC Main Committee to consider a revised draft on 13 June.
Agenda
item 9:
NI Regional Transportation Strategy
38.
Alan Preston welcomed the fact DPTAC were responding to the consultation
in Northern Ireland and the views expressed in the paper. He also undertook
to inform the Committee on whether people with learning disabilities were
involved in the Northern Ireland Transport Advisory Committee. (Attachment
M4-M2-02 is his response).
39.
Members agreed the draft without amendment.
Action
Point 23: Chair to investigate if the Northern Ireland Transport Advisory
Committee (TAC) includes representation from people with learning disabilities.
Action
Point 24: Secretariat to issue the final response to the Northern
Ireland Transport Strategy.
Agenda
item 10:
Any other business
Home
Zones
40.
The Chair invited nominations for a representative on the DTLR Home Zones
Working Group. Janet Kirk agreed to represent the group, with support
from Grahame Lawson.
Action
Point 25: Janet Kirk to represent DPTAC on the DTLR Home Zones Working
Group with support from Grahame Lawson and Secretariat.
Understanding
the agenda
41.
Richard West reported difficulties in following the agenda. It was agreed
that he would discuss with the Secretariat how best his requirements could
be met.
Action
Point 26: Richard West to inform the Secretariat on how he wishes
to be briefed for meetings.
Date
of next Main Committee meeting 1.30pm 13 June 2002.
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