Minutes of Main Committee Meeting:
4 December 2002 (MM/M6/02)
Chair:
Jane Wilmot OBE
DPTAC Members:
Peter Barker
Mike Bruton
Vidur Dindayal
David Finnegan
Roy Hayter
Jenny Meadows
Tom Pey
David Pugh
Keith Richards
Janet Seymour Kirk
Carol Thomas
Glyn Vernon
Richard West
Observers:
Will Bee - Disability Rights Commission (DRC)
Ann Frye - Department for Transport (DfT) Mobility & Inclusion Unit
Julie Giles - Bus & Coach Advisor
Paula Morgan - Department of Work and Pensions (DWP)
David Petherick - ODPM Building Regulations Division
John Stirling - Mobility & Access Committee for Scotland
In Attendance:
Rachel Lomax Permanent Secretary DfT
Rod Paterson Assistant to Rachel Lomax
Nick Tyler University of London
Jenny Duncan Shadowing Vidur Dindayal
Mike Byron Personal Assistant to Glyn Vernon
Mark Cooke Interpreter for Richard West
Pat O'Reilly Interpreter for Richard West
Julie Whittaker Palantypist for Jane Wilmot
Tim Pope - DPTAC Secretary
Sandra Duncan - DPTAC Secretariat
Ffion Grant - DPTAC Secretariat
Gary Kemp - DPTAC Secretariat
Agenda item 1: Welcome, introductions and apologies of absence
1. Jane Wilmot welcomed DPTAC Members, observers and guest speakers to the meeting and explained that the meeting was being held in Eland House due to Health and Safety Regulations during the proposed Fire Fighters strike.
2. A particular welcome was extended to;
- Rachel Lomax, Department for Transport Permanent Secretary.
- Roy Hayter who has replaced Cath Simpson on DPTAC as a nomination from the Scottish Executive.
- Julie Giles, formerly of Travel West Midlands who will be observing at DPTAC meetings. She has considerable experience in bus issues and will advise the committee in this area.
- Jenny Duncan who is shadowing Vidur Dindayal.
3. Apologies were received from Sian Baldwin, Jean Dunlop, Grahame Lawson, Mike Spearing (Welsh Assembly Government), Damian Sharp (Scottish Executive). Paul Everall was replaced by David Petherick (ODPM) Members were reminded that Sue Sharp of MIU is now on maternity leave, during this period John Adey will attend all relevant meetings.
4. Jean Ashcroft had resigned from DPTAC on grounds of ill-health. The Chair had written on behalf of the Committee, to thank her for the valuable contribution she has made over the years.
5. Tom Pey has agreed to take on the role of Lead Member for Taxi and Private Hire Vehicle issues.
Agenda item 2: DfT Presentation by Rachel Lomax, Permanent Secretary
6. Jane welcomed the Permanent Secretary to the meeting and invited her to explain the objectives of the new Department.
7. The Permanent Secretary explained she had transferred with Alistair Darling from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) where she had some involvement in disability issues.
8. She explained the she wanted the Department for Transport (DfT) to be outward facing and a good partner in operating across Government to ensure transport worked for everyone.
9. She welcomed the work of the Committee in providing well rounded advice that was valued by Ministers and officials alike. She also recognised the burden placed on Members and appreciated their commitment and contribution.
10. In the new Department she wanted to ensure the Committee had the opportunity to influence the debate at an early stage, that Members time was not wasted and that the Department made best use of Members as a resource.
11. The Permanent Secretary then answered questions where the following issues were raised;
- It would be necessary to ensure diversity was reflected in the work of the Department, tackling myths and misconceptions about disabled people to ensure policy addresses people's needs.
- While recognising disabled people's needs were broadly the same as everyone else it would be necessary to keep raising access issues as part of the broader agenda.
- While winning hearts and minds was a good approach there were times where pressure would be needed to ensure policy was effectively delivered.
- More needed to be done to reflect the diversity of disabled people and the Committee was well placed, through its broad membership, to do so.
12. The Chair thanked the Permanent Secretary for her presentation and particularly the aim to involve the Committee at an early stage to ensure accessibility for disabled people was addressed.
Action point 1: Jane Wilmot to write thanking Rachel Lomax for her presentation.
Agenda item 3: Measures to Enhance the Mobility of Elderly and Disabled People by Professor Nick Tyler
13. Jane welcomed Nick Tyler to the meeting to outline research he was undertaking on behalf of DfT relating to evaluation of measures to assess accessibility.
14. Nick Tyler explained that this research was being funded by MIU, as a response to the commitment on developing measures for evaluating accessibility in Transport 2010, the 10 year plan for transport. He stressed that this was only an update rather than final report as they are currently mid way through a feasibility study.
15. The research was considering measures of mobility, the link between mobility and quality of life, meanings of accessibility and the existing data sources. The intention is to be able to model the effect of access improvements rather than to identify which disabled people should benefit. A copy of the presentation is attached as paper M2-M6-02.
16. Members welcomed the presentation, acknowledging it was a complex area but stressed the difficulties in attempting to quantify quality of life issues.
17. The Chair thanked Nick for his presentation and said DPTAC would wish to continue to monitor progress as effective tools to assess the effectiveness of different measures would be most helpful.
Action point 2: Secretariat to circulate copies of Nick Tyler's presentation for information.
Agenda item 4: Minutes of the last meeting (2 October 2002)
18. David Finnegan asked that page 3 paragraph 12 of the minutes be amended to reflect that his letter to the Chair on the definition of accessibility.
19. Subject to this amendment, the minutes of the meeting of 2 October 2002 were agreed.
20. The Chair confirmed these amended minutes would now be placed on the web site.
Action point 3: Secretariat to amend minutes to reflect David Finnegan's letter to Jane Wilmot.
Action point 4: Secretariat to arrange for amended Minutes of 2 October Main Committee meeting to be placed on web site.
Agenda item 5: Matters arising (01- M6-02)
21. Members noted the Matters Arising paper. The following additional points were also considered;
(i) Consultations
22. It was recognised that Members had considered a large volume of consultations during the year and this placed a burden on them. The Chair highlighted an action in the 2003 work programme to brief the Department on the issues the Committee would expect to see identified in future consultations to help address this problem.
(ii) European Year of Disabled People 2003
23. The Secretary reported that, in conjunction with the Mobility and Access Committee for Scotland (MACS), DPTAC is proposing to host a 24 hour roundtable meeting during autumn 2003. The aim of the meeting is to share knowledge and good practice with similar organisations from across Europe. The likely venue for this conference will be Edinburgh and it will be the Committee's contribution to the European Year of Disabled People.
(iii) Home Zones
24. Members were reminded that any information or questions on Home Zones should be addressed through the Secretariat to Janet Seymour-Kirk who is a member of the DfT Home Zones Working Group.
(iv) LARIA Guidance
25. The Secretary reported that LARIA would be making a presentation at the next meeting on their community consultation guidance, which would provide an opportunity for a wider discussion.
Agenda item 6: Lead Members Reports (paper 02-M6-02)
26. Members noted the Lead Members reports. In discussion the following points were raised;
(i) Aviation
27. DPTAC had responded to the DfT consultation, The Future Development of Air Transport in the United Kingdom.
28. Keith Richards informed the group of progress on the Voluntary Code of Conduct. At a recent European Civil Aviation Conference (ECAC) meeting in Paris it was agreed, in principle, that the cost of passenger assistance should be shared across all passengers. The European Commission are considering the practicalities of enforcing this decision and are considering options for legislation.
(ii) Built Environment
29. It was agreed it would be important to monitor the application and impact of guidance and requirements, such as Inclusive Mobility and the forthcoming revisions to Part M of the Building Regulations, to ensure their effectiveness.
30. The Secretary explained that the DPTAC 'Knowledge Map' would be renamed as the term was already in use and protected by copyright. Following the meeting, the name the Access Directory was agreed.
31. It was noted that in relation to historic environments, CADW (Welsh Historic Monuments) had also recently revised their guidance on access issues.
(iii) Community Transport
32. It was reported that the CfIT Bus Subsidy Report had been published and a summary of key points would be circulated to members.
(iv) Education and Training
33. The working group was now well established and had made useful contacts. It was identifying opportunities to influence the wider transport and built environment skills debate to ensure access is an underpinning principle.
34. It was suggested that Occupational Therapists also be invited to join the group.
35. At the February Main Committee proposals will be tabled for a DPTAC student award, provisional titled future inclusive.
(v) Local Government
36. In the discussion, Members stressed their concern at the reported lack of ability of local authorities to identify sources of good practice on access. It was agreed that there was enormous variation between authorities and it would be important to develop this relationship as authorities were responsible for the delivery of much of the policy that affected accessibility for disabled people.
37. In a discussion on access officers, it was agreed to seek information from DRC on their proposals in this area emerging from the legislative review.
(vi) Main Committee
38. The Chair reported that a key principle still needed to be established ensuring that "accessibility" in transport and built environment policy also applied to disabled people and that money was spent effectively with evidence on the consideration of the needs of disabled people.
39. Under the general task of keeping disabled people informed the role of Members in making presentations was also highlighted.
Action point 5: Education and Training working group to consider involvement of occupational therapists.
Action point 6: Jane Wilmot and Ann Frye to discuss how local authorities can be asked to report on guidance they are using in relation to access.
Action point 7: DRC to forward information on their view of the need for access officers.
Action point 8: Secretariat to obtain list of access officers from the Access Association.
Action point 9: Members to inform Secretariat if they are making presentations regarding DPTAC.
Agenda item 7: MIU Report (paper 03-M6-02)
40. Members noted the overall MIU report and Ann Frye highlighted a few specific issues.
(i) Review of Blue Badge Scheme
41. It was reported that an announcement on the review of the Scheme was anticipated before the end of the year.
(ii) Stepping distances between platforms and trains
42. It was reported that trials had started that week with a mock up train and platform and Members were invited to participate.
43. There was an issue relating to the EU Interoperability Directive which meant platform heights for routes on international routes would have to be reduced. It was not possible to use bridging systems used on light rail systems because of the different operating conditions of heavy rail systems.
44. The intention of this research would be to develop validated guidelines on stepping distances that took into account user requirements and the operating conditions.
(iii) Audible and Visual Information Systems on buses
45. The 'Announce' project was now complete and had been positive in establishing the benefits of audible and visual announcements on buses.
46. The report was currently being finalised and the intention was to publish a significant quantity of a summary leaflet explaining the system and its benefits. DPTAC would be mentioned in the report as one of the partners.
47. Members welcomed the findings of the trial and the intention to consider how to bring forward the benefits of the system at the earliest opportunity. It was agreed that the technology behind the system was less important than the output. Improvements in technology now made audible and visual announcements possible and reliable.
48. The Department would need to consider the viability of regulations and was currently seeking the views of the European Commission on this aspect.
49. Members requested that MIU contact Transport for London regarding their intentions to introduce audible and visual announcements on buses as a statement had been expected in August 2002.
(iv) Wheelchair Accessible Coach Trials
50. The entire coach fleet on the trial route where now wheelchair accessible. The initial problems with use of the equipment had been tracked back to problems in the training of the coach drivers. This had now been rectified.
(v) DRTF Consultation
51. Members welcomed the publication of the DRTF consultation on lifting the Part III exemption for transport operators which would tackle gratuitous discrimination.
52. It was hoped that it would be possible to take forward actions from the consultation in a Bill next year.
(vi) End date for Rail rolling stock and refurbishment regulations
53. Further work was being completed on the regulatory impact assessment for the DRTF rail recommendations but this was anticipated to be completed in the Spring when a separate consultation would come forward.
(vii) Review of 4/8mph vehicles
54. It was reported that the Department was due to undertake a wide ranging review of 4/8mph vehicles shortly, covering issues such as insurance, construction and use and other issues.
55. The Chair reported that she hoped this could cover the concerns that had been raised with her about the use of such vehicles and that the Committee would wish to be involved.
(viii) Inclusive Mobility
56. On behalf of the Committee, the Chair welcomed the publication of Inclusive Mobility which represented a significant step forward in explaining the implications of the Disability Discrimination Act for pedestrian environments and public transport infrastructure. The challenge now would be to ensure the guidance was used effectively by those responsible for such environments.
Action point 10: Members interested in participating in the stepping heights research to contact the Secretariat.
Action point 11: MIU to report on European Commission reaction to regulation on audible and visual announcements.
Action point 12: MIU to contact TfL regarding their commitment to audible and visual announcements.
Agenda item 8: Draft Annual Report 2002 (paper 04-M6-02)
57. The Chair introduced the first draft of the Annual Report and explained that the intention was to agree the basic structure and agree any significant omissions.
58. Members raised a series of points regarding the register of interest and information on members, inclusion of images, avoiding abbreviations, inviting feedback, adding a section on Wales and adding challenges for the future.
59. The Secretariat would produce a revised draft before Christmas taking these points into account and invite comments by 10 January.
60. The Chair stressed that the aim is to sign off the final text at the 5 February meeting and publish before 3 April. She also reported that the Secretary of State has agreed to write the foreword.
61. The Secretary confirmed that a version for people with learning disabilities would also be produced for consideration in February.
Action point 13: Secretariat to amend the draft Annual Report in light of comments and circulate a revised draft.
Action point 14: Members to comment on the revised draft of the Annual Report to be circulated by the Secretariat.
Agenda item 9: 2003 Work Programme (paper 06-M6-02)
61. The Chair introduced the revised work programme and stated it needed to be agreed at this meeting. The work programme had aimed to focus on specific outcomes and be more manageable.
62. Over the last few meetings the Committee had considered the emerging work programme and views of external organisations had been sought. Reaction was largely positive although it was agreed it was an ambitious programme.
63. Once agreed the Secretariat would be developing a more detailed programme of when and how tasks would be taken forward with the aim of enabling meetings to be booked well in advance.
64. Members approved the 2002 work programme.
Agenda item 11: Any other business
(i) DPTAC Reviews
65. Ann Frye explained that there was currently a five year review of DPTAC underway, which was a standard requirement for such bodies. The review was essentially aimed at considering if the Committee was still necessary and if any improvements could be made.
66. Ann Frye also reported that another requirement was for Members and the Chair to undergo a performance assessment. In this first instance, those Members due for reappointment would be considered in the Spring. The assessment would be completed by Ann Frye, Tim Pope and the Chair.
67. The assessment of the Chair would be completed by Ann Frye.
(ii) Government Website on Disability
68. The Secretary reported on an invitation for DPTAC Members to comment on plans for a Government 'portal' on disability issues. This web site would provide a starting point for people seeking information and advice.
Action point 15: Secretariat to forward information on the 'disability portal' to Will Bee.
Date of Next Meeting: 2pm on 5 February 2003 in Great Minster House, London.
Top of page
|
