Minutes of Main Committee Meeting:
3 April 2003 (M/M2/03)

Chair:
Jane Wilmot OBE

DPTAC Members:
Peter Barker
Sian Baldwin
Ann Bates
Vidur Dindayal
Jean Dunlop
David Finnegan
Julie Giles
Roy Hayter
Janet Seymour Kirk
Grahame Lawson
Jenny Meadows
Tom Pey
Carol Thomas

Observers:
William Bee - Disability Rights Commission (DRC)
Kyle Crutchley - DRD Northern Ireland
Louise Evans - Disability Rights Commission
Ann Frye - Department for Transport (DfT) Mobility & Inclusion Unit
Julie Giles
John Stirling - Mobility Access Committee for Scotland

In Attendance:
Julie Whitaker - Palantypist
Tim Pope - Secretary
Sandra Duncan - Secretariat
Verona Wiltshire - Secretariat

Agenda item 1: Welcome, introductions and apologies of absence

1. Jane Wilmot welcomed DPTAC members, observers and guest speakers to the meeting. A particular welcome was extended to those attending for the first time:

• Louise Evans, DRC, observing Will Bee; and
• Verona Wiltshire who joined the Secretariat on 1 April.

2. Apologies had been received from Richard West, Mike Bruton, David Pugh, Keith Richards, Paul Everall and Alan Preston. Ffion Grant and Gary Kemp from the Secretariat also gave their apologies. Kyle Crutchley attended in place of Alan Preston.

3. Alan Hughes, Catherine Doherty, Ben Merrick, John Bentham and Esther Lury from the Social Exclusion Unit (SEU) joined the meeting for the item on the Social Exclusion Unit report on transport.

4. Nigel Dotchin and Catherine Cornwell of the Department for Transport (DfT) joined the meeting for the item on the ten year plan review.

Agenda item 2: Minutes of the last meeting (5 February 2003)

5. The minutes of the 5 February meeting were agreed without amendment.

Action Point 1: Secretariat to arrange for minutes of the previous meeting to be placed on the web site.

Agenda item 3: Matters arising (paper 01-M2-03)

6. Members noted the matters arising in agenda paper 01-M2-03. The Chair then raised additional matters not covered in the paper or where further progress had since occurred.

(i) DfT Code of Practice and associated DPTAC guidance on air travel

7. The Department for Transport Code of Practice on access for air travel for disabled people was launched on 20 March together with the committee's guidance for older and less mobile flyers.

8. The documents had been well received and were being widely disseminated. Over 7000 copies had been sent to members of ABTA. Members would be sent copies of both documents.

Action Point 2: Secretariat to circulate the DfT Code of Practice on Access to Air Travel and companion DPTAC guidance.

(ii) ODPM planning and access good practice guide

9. The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister planning and access good practice guide was finally published on 27 March and would be circulated to members.

10. The committee had welcomed the document but had concerns about the availability of alternative formats and the lack of promotion of the guide. The built environment group were pursuing both issues.

(iii) Include 2003

11. The committee had been represented at Include 2003, an international conference bringing together practitioners in inclusive design. Carol Thomas had made a presentation called 'Beyond Firefighting' which stressed the need for education and training of transport and built environment professionals to include the principles of inclusive design and for it not to be a specialist area of expertise. She had also announced the intention to launch 'Future Inclusive' promoting awareness among undergraduates.

12. She would also be making a presentation at the Building Education and Research (BEAR) conference in Salford later in the month to launch 'Future Inclusive' to lecturers.

(iv) Home Zones

13. There had been a Home Zones working group meeting and visit in Newport, details of which would be circulated to members

Action Point 3: Janet Seymour Kirk to write a report on Home Zone meetings for circulation in the mailing.

(v) Ports and Ferries

14. The forum meeting preceding main committee had been well attended and discussed the draft specification of requirements for the committee's research into the effectiveness of its guidance. This would now be amended to reflect issues raised and once funding approval is granted the Secretariat will take forward the letting of the contract.

(vi) MORI attitudes of disabled people to community transport

15. The follow up MORI study on disabled people's attitudes to community transport was now complete and would be circulated to members.

Action Point 2: Secretariat to circulate copies of the MORI research on attitudes of disabled people to community transport.

Agenda item 4: Progress on work programme (paper 02-M2-03)

16. Members considered the paper 02-M2-03 reporting on progress on the work programme and agreed the priorities until June. These included finalising advice on consultations, launching the annual report, 'Inclusive Projects' guide and 'Future Inclusive', continuing to seek amendment to the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Bill and advising on changes to Building Regulations Part M.

17. It was noted that the bulk of members' work was being spent on responding to consultations (task 2) of which ten had been completed so far this year.

18. The Annual Report had been cleared with the Plain English Campaign and after amendment received their 'Crystal Mark' for clarity. The report was being printed and would be launched after the Easter recess in late April.

19. A query was raised in relation to the Crown exemption from Building Regulations and how this related to Part III duties under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. Although the Crown exemption remains there is a strong commitment to work to the regulations and the exemption was being lifted when a legislative opportunity arose, for example educational buildings are now included within Building Regulations.

20. It was also agreed that the committee would need to continue to consider the implications of the Social Exclusion Unit report and this task was not yet completed.

21. Members also considered a draft paper on what the committee expects from consultations on transport and built environment issues.

22. It was agreed that the draft needed to be amended to achieve the impact desired. Specific suggestions included:

• checking the consultation period in the voluntary sector compact with Government;
• using the four DPTAC principles agreed by members and structuring the document around these;
• considering advice from the Northern Ireland Transport Advisory Committee and LARIA;
• adding a bullet point checklist;
• considering additional resources alongside the guide, such as training sessions, meeting officials and making presentations;
• using clear and concise language; and
• adding contact points for the Secretariat.

23. Members were invited to make further comments on the draft and a small working group will consider a revised version before a further paper is considered at the next meeting.

Action Point 5: Secretariat to check the voluntary sector compact in relation to consultation periods.

Action Point 6: Kyle Crutchley to forward information on the NI Transport Advisory Committee guidance on consultations.

Action Point 7: Members to forward comments on the draft guidance on consultation.

Action Point 8: Task group to meet and agree the detail of revised draft guidance on consultation. Members to agree guidance at or before the next meeting.

Action Point 9: Members to agree guidance on consultations at or before the next main committee meeting.

Agenda item 5: MIU Report (paper 03-M2-03)

24. Members noted paper 03-M2-03 and Ann Frye made additional comments amplifying on the report.

25. The responses to the consultation on lifting the Part III exemption for transport services under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 were now being considered. One change which was likely was the inclusion of tourist and leisure services within the scope of the change. Another issue that needed further consideration was the removal of disabled people from the hard shoulder on motorways and whether it would be safer for people to remain in their vehicles.

26. The additional consultation on rail issues would be issued shortly.

27. Progress was being made on taking forward the Blue Badge Scheme recommendations. A particular concern had been raised in relation to Thalidomide people and the ability to use parking equipment. Following a meeting earlier that morning members were asked to consider a change of wording to the upper limb criteria that would focus on the ability to use parking equipment as a result of severe congenital disability affecting both upper limbs.

28. A 'buck' would be installed at TRL in Crowthorne to test accessibility requirements for taxis. Members of the committee would be invited to visit the trials and participate.

29. In relation to ground handling and charging disabled people for assistance at airports there had now been agreement that the European Commission would legislate to ensure disabled people were not charged. The mechanics of how to cover the costs of providing assistance still needed to be resolved but members welcomed the progress made.

30. On audible announcements on buses the EU response needed to be clarified to determine whether UK regulations could be introduced. Once resolved the committee would be informed.

31. The Department for Transport had also published its race equality scheme, as required under the Race Relations (Amendment) Act.

Action Point 10: MIU to invite members to visit the test buck, which will be used for testing taxi requirements.

Action Point 11: Secretariat to circulate copies of the DfT Race Equality Scheme.

Agenda item 6: SEU report on transport and social exlusion

32. The Chair welcomed Alun Hughes, Catherine Doherty, Ben Merrick, John Bentham and Esther Lury from the Social Exclusion Unit to the meeting. The committee had welcomed the publication of the report and valued the opportunity to discuss its detail further.

33. Esther Lury provided a presentation covering the problem, key findings, solutions and what happens next. This is attached as paper M2-M2-03.

34. In relation to solutions accessibility planning was being promoted as a key component. This will involve an accessibility audit and a resources audit to make sure that transport services enable everyone, particularly socially excluded people, reach local services. This includes the transport interpretation of 'accessibility' rather than only access for disabled people, although it will form part of accessibility planning at local level.

35. DPTAC were likely to be invited to be involved in the wider reference group that will consider developments in accessibility planning. The committee would want to ensure effective mechanisms for monitoring and assessing the impact of accessibility planning on disabled people.

36. It was noted that the report was not backed with additional new money and that savings were expected from more effective allocation of existing resources to fund improvements. However, the committee was concerned that some existing projects that were running the type of flexible services advocated in the report were already closing due to lack of funding.

37. In relation to community transport it was noted that the relaxation of Section 19 rules were having a benefit but a full review of the Section 19 and 21 rules was required.

38. The results of consultation on flexibly routed services was expected shortly.

39. Although the report had not advocated an increase in public transport use by non-socially excluded people the committee was concerned that this might maintain the perception of public transport only being for lower income groups.

Action Point 12: Members to comment on the SEU report and implementation plan.

Action Point 13: Chair to discuss DPTAC involvement in SEU report implementation plan.

Agenda item 7: Review of the 10-year plan

40. The Chair welcomed Nigel Dotchin and Catherine Cornwell from the DfT strategy and review unit to the meeting. She invited them to explain the process of the 10-year plan review and how the principle of access for disabled people being provided as a matter of course could be fully integrated into the next plan.

41. Nigel Dotchin explained that there had been limited progress so far as the review was still in its early stages. The aim was to finish the review by July 2004 to coincide with the next Spending Round and roll forward the plan until 2015.

42. He reported that the areas of concern in the original ten year plan Transport 2010 had been discussed with the chair and that Delivering Better Transport: Progress Report simply reported on what had been achieved in the first period of the plan.

43. It was recognised that there had been significant developments since the plan was produced including higher economic growth and higher traffic and congestion than originally thought.

44. A board level steering group was taking forward the review and there would be a series of work streams that come together in the review. These would include work streams on each mode of transport but also on cross cutting issues so that they fed into the review.

45. The principle behind the review was to focus on the purpose of transport and ask fundamental questions on the role of transport and how it contributes to other issues.

46. There was potential to add further work streams and it was agreed it may be worth considering whether transport providers are meeting their obligations to disabled people, monitoring and reviewing various initiatives aimed at making transport more inclusive. It was stressed that the Department should not rely on MIU for meeting the needs of disabled people although their expertise was recognised and must be fed into the review.

47. The effectiveness of local transport plans in meeting the needs of disabled people were discussed and the issue of key performance indicators raised. It was stressed that the committee would want Government commitments on access for disabled people as a condition of public funding to be made more effective with agreed targets and monitoring in place.

48. The review would also consider liveability issues and the pedestrian environment. Much of the work of the plan would be underpinned by modelling and it was recognised that these models would need to consider the diversity of the population including disabled people.

49. The committee agreed it would need to consider the review as it developed and seek to contribute to its development. The most effective mechanism for doing so would be discussed further.

Action Point 14: Ann Frye and Nigel Dotchin to discuss involvement of DPTAC in the review of the 10 year plan and a possible disability and ageing work stream.

Action Point 15: Ann Frye and Chair to discuss DPTAC involvement in whole Review of 10YP.

Agenda item 8: Review of DPTAC (paper 04-M2-03)

50. Members considered paper 04-M2-03 which set out proposals for revising the working methods of the committee. This considered the actions resulting from the review of DPTAC and a further paper on proposed changes.

51. Under the actions it had now been agreed to pay members who claim it a quarterly communications allowance in recognition of the cost of membership in receiving e-mails and accessing information on the internet.

52. Assisting members with using technology was also raised as an area that needed consideration.

53. Members were also asked for their views on how to induct new members and build an effective team. It was agreed a blend of policy information and getting to know each other might be more preferable than one or the other. The Secretariat will prepare proposals for consideration at the next meeting.

54. It was also suggested that new members be asked for their first impressions of the committee shortly after joining as this might help improve the service to the committee.

55. Members welcomed the 'induction pack' with information on how to claim expenses, calendar of meetings and background information.

56. The Secretary introduced the second part of the paper on the proposed changes to the working methods. This addressed one of the main criticisms in the review of DPTAC regarding the end of working groups and move to lead members.

57. It was proposed to establish four groups replicating the structure of the Department for Transport as well as the committee's built environment role. This was seen as a compromise between the eight mode specific groups that operated in the past and the two current groups.

58. The intention was to re-establish relationships with external organisations and improving communication with key stakeholders. This would also allow more time for discussion of issues in the groups before they were considered at main committee.

59. The e-community was also created to assist in this process and was now live for members to use. Additional contacts would be added to the community over the coming weeks.

60. Members recognised the reasons for the proposed changes but raised several concerns over the proposals, including:

• the broad scope of the groups, particularly rail, aviation and maritime and whether this would be manageable;
• whether one industry stakeholder would sit through a discussion on another area of transport;
• the need to put the built environment role on a statutory footing (DfT and ODPM would be discussing the committee's role in this area);
• whether there was any affinity between rail, aviation and maritime;
• what would happen to lead members; and
• a fear of compressing issues and chairs pushing issues through without debate.

61. However it was also recognised that the work of the committee needed to be divided in some way and the workload spread across the whole membership. It was confirmed that the proposals were in addition to existing meetings to enable better contact with key stakeholders as well as allowing more time for discussion.

62. It was agreed that members would comment further on the paper and revised proposals would be considered for approval in June.

Action Point 16: Members to contact the Secretariat if they require training on the e-community.

Action Point 17: Member to forward comments to the Secretariat on their preferences for induction.

Action Point 18: Secretariat to provide a draft proposal for induction by the next meeting.

Action Point 19: Secretariat to discuss with the Chair the detail of the revised working methods.

Action Point 20: Member to discuss and agree the detail of revised working methods at or before the next meeting.

Agenda item 9: Any other business

63. Carol Thomas reported that the JMU Access Partnership, RADAR, RICS and RIBA had secured funding to develop a CPD programme on access and inclusion.

Date of next Main Committee meeting: Wednesday 4 June 2003.

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