Minutes of Main Committee Meeting:
4 June 2003 (MM/M3/03)
Chair:
Jane Wilmot
DPTAC Members:
Ann Bates
Vidur Dindayal
Jean Dunlop
David Finnegan
Julie Giles
Roy Hayter
Janet Seymour Kirk
Grahame Lawson
Tom Pey
Keith Richards
Carol Thomas
Richard West
Observers:
William Bee - Disability Rights Commission (DRC)
Paul Everall - Office of the Deputy Prime Minister
Ann Frye - DfT Mobility & Inclusion Unit
Greg Dempster - Mobility & Access Committee for Scotland
Carol Foster-Middleton - Department for Work and Pensions
In Attendance:
Sue Foot - Palantypist
Karen Newby - Sign Language Interpreter
Darren Townsend - Sign Language Interpreter
Tim Pope - Secretary
Sandra Duncan - Secretariat
Ffion Grant - Secretariat
Harriet Samuels - Secretariat
Verona Wiltshire - Secretariat
Agenda item 1: Welcome, introductions and apologies of absence
1. Jane Wilmot welcomed members and observers to the meeting. A particular welcome was extended to those attending for the first time Carol Foster-Middleton, who had replaced Paula Morgan as the observer from DWP.
2. Apologies had been received David Pugh, Jenny Meadows, Peter Barker, Sian Baldwin and Alan Preston. Gary Kemp from the Secretariat also gave his apologies.
3. She also reported that Mike Bruton has been re-elected as a local councillor, and as his party was now in office, he had decided to stand down from the committee. Members recorded their thanks for his contribution over the last 18 months.
4. Helen Cameron would be the new Scottish Executive observer at the committee, replacing Damian Sharpe who had moved to a new role.
5. The Chair also apologised for the lack of a forum meeting preceding the meeting which was due to an oversight in the Secretariat meaning their was insufficient notice to invite speakers.
Agenda item 2: Minutes of the last meeting (3 April 2003)
6. The minutes of the 3 April meeting were agreed without amendment.
Action Point 1: Secretariat to arrange for minutes of the previous meeting to be placed on the web site.
Agenda item 3: Matters arising (paper 01-M3-03)
7. Members noted the matters arising in agenda paper 01-M3-03, most of which were included elsewhere on the agenda.
(i) Access for disabled students
8. Will Bee highlighted an issue the Disability Rights Commission were concerned about with regard to access to further education colleges for disabled students. It appeared as if funding was falling between the Learning and Skills Council and the Local Authority but this might be an issue in relation to the Social Exclusion Unit work.
9. It was agreed he would write to Ann Frye with his concerns so she can raise this the Department for Education and Skills (DfES) representative on the virtual group taking forward the SEU report. DPTAC would be kept informed of the response.
Action Point 2: Will Bee (DRC) to write to Ann Frye with regard to further education colleges and transport for disabled people.
(ii) Induction of new members (paper 01a-M3-03)
10. The Secretary outlined proposals for the induction of new members. At the last meeting it was agreed the focus should be on team building and setting the policy context for new members.
11. The proposal was for an evening dinner preceding the next meeting followed by a morning of presentations and a normal meeting in the afternoon. Members also considered the location, timing and content of the session.
12. It was agreed that the Secretariat to check availability of members on 5 August or before, investigate options for holding the event at the TATE Britain and invite briefings on the 10-year plan for transport and local transport planning and built environment. It was also agreed that the session should outline what DPTAC can and can not do and review recent achievements and activities. Observers would also be invited to attend.
Action Point 3: Secretariat to check Members availability for 5 August dinner or alternative date in July.
Action Point 4: Secretariat to make arrangements for the induction dinner at the TATE Britain.
Agenda item 4: Progress on work programme (paper 02-M3-03)
13. Members considered the paper 02-M3-03 reporting on progress on the work programme and agreed the priorities until August. These included issuing advice on consultations (inclusive policies), launching Inclusive Projects, seeking changes to the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Bill and arranging induction for new members.
14. Under task 2, responding to consultations, it was noted that the Secretariat had been seeking to structure responses around the four principles more closely.
15. In relation to rail tasks the Chair reported worrying indications about the Strategic Rail Authority's commitment to access for disabled people. They have been asked to confirm their position.
16. It was agreed that if the SRA were not intending to deliver access improvements the committee would need to address seriously their concerns to Ministers. DRC shared the concerns of DPTAC and would work with the committee in seeking clarification.
17. Under task 13 it was noted that the review of Part M was now complete and had been approved by the Building Regulations Advisory Committee (BRAC). The regulatory impact assessment was now being finalised and the aim is to publish later in the year.
18. The Chair reported that Peter Barker and Bert Massie, Chairman of the DRC, were meeting Tony McNulty and Jeff Rooker to explain concerns around the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Bill.
19. It was agreed to check if participants in DPTAC funded research were paid for their contributions, as this is something we recommend.
20. Under task 19 on private hire services the research would include the needs of people with learning disabilities and people with mental health problems.
21. Under task 25, the European roundtable, 22 countries had been contacted through ECMT. So far only one had responded. It was agreed to chase contacts for a response but if there was not a reasonable return the event would be cancelled.
22. In the next few weeks the consultation document on aircraft toilets (task 27) would be published.
23. With the departure of the Secretary and new committee there was likely to be a period where the capacity of DPTAC was reduced.
24. As recommended in the review, the reporting year for DPTAC has been changed to a financial year and it was agreed that the current work programme should run until April 2004. This would recognise the reduction in capacity and give the new committee additional time before finalising its plans.
Action Point 5: DPTAC to pursue SRA on attitude to access for disabled people.
Action Point 6: Secretariat to check if participants in research focus groups are to be paid.
Action Point 7: Ann Frye to chase ECMT contacts in relation to European Seminar.
Action Point 8: DPTAC and MACS Secretariats, in consultation with their respective chairs, to determine if to continue with the seminar.
TRIPSCOPE proposal (paper 02a-M3-03)
25. The Chair asked the Secretary to outline a proposal from TRIPSCOPE to develop information for disabled people and declared an interest as a Trustee of the organisation.
26. TRIPSCOPE is an independent non-campaigning voluntary sector organisation which provides information to disabled people on travel issues. They approached the Department for Transport with a proposal to develop a website providing information that has previously been contained in a publication called 'Door-to-Door'.
27. Door-to-Door was previously published by the Department and then by RADAR but written by TRIPSCOPE. The document has not been updated since 1999 due to the cost.
28. It is felt that with recent developments and changes it is necessary to supply better, credible information to disabled people. DPTAC was approached as it was felt it would credibility to the information and because the Committee's priorities stress the need to provide disabled people with information.
29. The website is anticipated to cost £10 000 to £15 000 to establish and will have on-going maintenance and updating costs. This represents about 10% of the committee's budget.
30. Members discussed the proposal and agreed in principle to support its development as it met the aims of the committee. However it was recognised that the scope and requirements would need further development and alternative sources of funding should also be investigated.
Action Point 9: Secretariat to contact TRIPSCOPE to discuss the specification for the website proposal.
Agenda item 5: MIU Report (paper 03-M3-03)
31. Members noted paper 03-M3-03 and Ann Frye made additional comments amplifying on the report and recent developments.
32. Guidance on transport compatible wheelchairs would be launched at the Mobility Roadshow under the title 'Wheels-within-Wheels'. This would cover all wheelchairs available in the UK.
33. In taking forward the recommendations on the Blue Badge Scheme, two areas need changes to primary legislation - the power to inspect badges and changing the terminology of 'institutional' badges. The research on establishing a national database of Blue Badge holders will be circulated to DPTAC. A further suggestion has been made to include a barcode on the badge to enable electronic reading.
34. Draft regulations are in the process of development on other recommendations with the aim of starting the process of formal consultation in the next six months.
35. On 4-8mph vehicles a research specification is being finalised and will inform the review. A related issue of concern is the introduction of SEGWAY devices, where the organisation is seeking changes to legislation to enable them to be used on the footway. Ministers recognise the dangers of permitting silent vehicles travelling at up to 12mph in pedestrian areas.
36. Details of the device can be found at http://www.segway.com.
37. The consultation on taking forward the DRTF recommendations on rail has now been cleared with the Strategic Rail Authority. DfT are hopeful of launching the consultation soon.
38. Under aviation a specification for research to benchmark current standards of access is being developed. This will enable the Department to monitor the effectiveness of the aviation code of practice.
39. A meeting has also been held with baggage handlers and wheelchair manufacturers to discuss how to avoid damage to wheelchairs in flight. Some practical guidance is felt necessary and further work will continue in this area.
40. A case where a guide dog owner had been refused access to a bookshop was discussed as it had implications for the rights of access. Further details will be passed to DWP and the DRC have covered the case in their legislative review, recommending a revised test is included.
Action Point 10: Secretariat to circulate Wheels-within-wheels when available.
Action Point 11: MIU to consult DPTAC on the terms of reference for the research on a national database for blue badge holders.
Action Point 12: Richard West to help MIU in the accessible version of the Race Equality Scheme.
Action Point 13: Tom Pey to contact DWP with regard to the access for guide dogs case.
Action Point 14: Secretariat to circulate details of the Segway with the minutes.
Agenda item 6: Working Methods (paper 04-M3-03)
41. Members considered paper 04-M3-03 which outlined changes to the working methods of the committee. This was based on the previous discussion and additional comments from members.
42. One of the key aims of the changes is to strengthen relationships with stakeholders, including industry representatives.
43. There remained some concerns about the Rail, Aviation and Maritime group but members agreed it was necessary to implement the proposals. The changes would be reviewed in a year to assess if they needed further change.
44. An additional point was raised about the timescale members had to complete responses. The Secretariat confirmed that there had been cases where they had received documents with a short response period but aimed in the main to allow members four weeks to comment.
Action Point 15: Secretariat to implement proposals for revised working methods.
Action Point 16: DPTAC to review working methods in June 2004.
Agenda item 7: Inclusive Policies (paper 05-M3-03)
45. Members welcomed the revised paper, Inclusive Policies, which is intended as guidance for DfT officials. It was felt that the guide was now much clearer and focussed and would have an impact.
46. It was agreed to include a reference to the wider equality and diversity context in the document, so that issues of race for example were also addressed.
47. It was agreed to have final comments by 13 June before piloting the draft with a sample of officials. The intention is to then seek backing from DfT's management board for the paper as this would have credibility to the document and its use.
Action Point 17: Secretariat to add paragraph on diversity and equality context to inclusive policies.
Action Point 18: Members to provide final drafting comments by 13 June.
Agenda item 8: Concessionary fares (paper 06-M3-03)
48. Members considered paper 06-M3-03 which set out how the Secretariat proposed to take forward the task to develop a report on concessionary fares.
49. It was recognised that this was a sensitive issue and would generate significant interest. However, DPTAC's report on the Blue Badge Scheme had helped lead to the changes currently being developed.
50. Members agreed the principle to produce a discussion document and invite organisations to comment over the next few months. The discussion highlighted particular issues in relation to concessionary fares across different modes, countries and authorities.
51. It was agreed to invite views on the cross-sector benefits, legislation, time of operation and technology under the issues for discussion. It was also necessary to highlight taxis, private hire vehicles and community transport.
52. Members were invited to send further comments by 30 June from which the Secretariat would develop a draft paper for discussion on 6 August.
Action Point 19: Members to provide comments for inclusion in the paper on concessionary fares by 30 June.
Action Point 20: Greg Dempster to provide feedback from MACS discussion on concessionary fares.
Agenda item 9: Any other business
53. This was the last meeting for the Secretary who is moving to the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister. Members recorded their thanks and best wishes. Ann Frye is currently in the process of recruiting a replacement with aim of finding someone with disability, secretariat and transport experience.
54. It was also Jane Wilmot's last meeting as Chair of the committee. Members recorded their thanks and appreciation for the drive and energy she had devoted to the Committee over the past four and half years as Chair.
Date of next Main Committee meeting: Wednesday 6 August 2003.
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