Minutes of Main Committee Meeting:
6 August 2003
Chairma:
Neil Betteridge
DPTAC Members:
Pravin Amin
Peter Barker
Ann Bates
Josie Clairmont
Vidur Dindayal
David Finnegan
Roy Hayter
Roger Hewitt
Grahame Lawson
Jenny Meadows
David Pugh
Tom Pey
Keith Richards
Laura Smales
Kate Smyth
Observers:
William Bee - Disability Rights Commission (DRC)
Louise Evans - Disability Rights Commission (DRC)
Mike Spearing - Welsh Assembly Government
Ann Frye - DfT Mobility & Inclusion Unit
Sue Sharp - DfT Mobility & Inclusion Unit
John Stirling - Mobility & Access Committee for Scotland
Peter Noakes - Department for Work and Pensions
Steve Johnson - Northern Ireland
Margaret Hickish - Mobility & Access Committee for Scotland
In Attendance:
Andrew Green - Sign Language Interpreter
Mark Cooke - Sign Language Interpreter
Sandra Duncan - Secretariat
Gary Kemp - Secretariat
Ffion Grant - Secretariat
Verona Wiltshire - Secretariat
Andy Kirby - DEFRA
Ayo Newton - on secondment to Mobility & Inclusion Unit
Apologies:
Sian Baldwin
Jean Dunlop
Julie Giles
Carol Foster Middleton
Carol Thomas
Richard West
Agenda item 1: Welcome, introductions and apologies of absence
1. Neil Betteridge introduced himself as the new Chair of DPTAC and welcomed the Committee, observers and guests to the meeting. He extended a particular welcome to the new DPTAC members. It was noted that there had been a great deal of interest in the recent appointments, with a large number of high calibre applicants.
2. He also welcomed several observers and guests who were attending for the first time:
- Margaret Hickish the Convenor of MACS (Mobility and Access Committee for Scotland)
- Peter Noakes attending in place of Carol Foster Middleton (Department of Works and Pensions)
- Ann Lyon in place of Helen Cameron (Scottish Executive)
- Stephen Johnston who replaces Alan Preston as representative from the Department of Regional Development Northern Ireland
- Ayo Newton on secondment to the MIU.
3. Neil welcomed back Sue Sharp to her first DPTAC meeting since her return from maternity leave.
4. Andy Kirby received a warm welcome, he will take up the post of DPTAC Secretary on 15th September.
Agenda item 2: Minutes of the last meeting (4 June 2003)
5. Keith Richards asked for the minutes to be amended to reflect his attendance at the last meeting. Members agreed the minutes subject to this amendment.
Action Point 1: Secretariat to amend minutes to reflect Keith Richards' attendance at the meeting and then arrange for minutes of the June Main Committee meeting to be placed on the web-site.
Agenda item 3: Matters arising
Paper 01-M4-03
6. Members noted the matters arising in agenda paper 01-M4-03, most of which were included elsewhere on the agenda.
7. Neil Betteridge made additional comments expanding on specific actions arising from the previous meeting and recent developments.
Action Point 6
8. The issue of focus group participants being paid expenses is ongoing and will need to be considered at future meetings.
Action Point 7
9. The joint DPTAC/MACS roundtable event to celebrate the European Year of Disabled People (Task 25 of DPTAC Work Programme 03) will not be going ahead. It had been agreed that at least 9 countries would be necessary to make the event viable, unfortunately only 7 countries had formally agreed to attend by the stated deadline. It is hoped, however, that the interest generated might lead to a similar event being organised in the future.
Agenda item 4: Progress on work programme
Paper 02-M4-03
10. Members considered the paper 02-M4-03 reporting on progress on the work programme. Neil Betteridge made additional comments expanding on the report and updated the meeting on recent developments.
11. Task 2 - it was noted that DPTAC has responded to twenty already and are currently considering responses to another four. Due to the high numbers, members agreed that the Secretariat should continue to assess and prioritise the relevance and importance of all consultations received.
12. It was also noted that DPTAC recently published its own consultation on Technical Specifications for accessible toilets on aircraft (Task 27 DPTAC Work Programme 03). The consultation has been widely circulated to the aviation industry and disability organisations. The consultation period ends on 17th October.
13. Task 13 - The review of Part M is now complete, the revised requirements are expected to be published later this year.
14. Task 14 - Peter Barker and Bert Massie (Chairman of Disability Rights Commission) met with Yvette Cooper and officials from the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister on 14 July to discuss amending the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Bill to strengthen it and include a specific reference to `inclusion'.
15. Yvette Cooper agreed to look into these issues and take them forward with Keith Hill. The Bill is now expected to come before the House of Commons in September.
16. Peter noted that Yvette Cooper also agreed to meet with DPTAC to discuss housing issues.
Action Point 2: Peter Barker to update Main Committee on progress at October meeting.
17. Task 17 - Members were asked to consider how improvements to access for disabled people can be measured and monitored by Government at all levels.
18. Members agreed that any benchmarking system would need to be a robust, useful indicator of use and not just number crunching. However, they were undecided about how best to measure satisfaction.
19. Members discussed the viability of adopting Access Statements such as those used in the planning process across other modes as a 'quick fix'. Concerns were raised as to how effective these would be. For example rail operating companies are required to produce basic access statements in the form of their Disabled Persons Protection Policies (DPPPs). However as the DPPP review process last year demonstrated a lack of standardisation and co-operation this proved to be an ineffective and unreliable source of monitoring.
20. During their earlier Induction Briefing, members had received a presentation on the Government's 10 Year Transport Plan which includes provision for monitoring access improvements. MIU have commissioned research and will keep DPTAC informed.
Action Point 3: Secretariat to invite DfT to give an update presentation on the 10 Year Transport Plan at October Main Committee.
Action Point 4: MIU to update DPTAC on progress of 10 Year Plan monitoring research when appropriate.
21. Ann Frye reminded members that MIU have sponsored research to develop a system to evaluate the benefit of different aspects of enhanced mobility for disabled people. This project will identify what measures and facilities offer the greatest benefit to the most people. The information from this research will then feed into Guidance on Local Transport Plans.
Action Point 5: MIU to update DPTAC on progress of their evaluation project when appropriate.
22. Will Bee informed the group that the DRC were also interested in 'user appropriate indicators' and suggested that DPTAC and DRC work together.
23. Will also informed the meeting the DRC were currently involved in a literature review to identify and fill existing gaps and would shortly be meeting with Ann Frye and Sandra Duncan to discuss this issue.
Action Point 6: Will Bee to liase with Secretariat regarding benchmarking accessibility.
Action Point 7: Will Bee to liase with Secretariat and MIU regarding DRC literature review and update Main Committee at October meeting.
24. Task 22 - `Inclusive Projects', the DPTAC best practice guide to preparing and delivering project briefs, generated a great deal of interest at its launch at the Royal Town Panning Institute's conference in Cardiff in June.
25. Task 24 - 'Future Inclusive'. The reference pack for lecturers has been sent out. Members were invited to make suggestions for the launch event which is planned for October.
26. During discussions the following suggestions were made:
- to approach the Parliamentary Design Group to host a launch event - possibly at the House of Commons.
- to involve a high profile minister in the launch event.
- to produce a video demonstrating good and bad practice.
- to promote good practice in product design.
27. Members were invited to submit any further ideas to the Secretariat.
Action Point 8: Members to submit ideas for the launch of Future Inclusive to the Secretariat by 22 August.
Agenda item 5: MIU Report
Paper 03-M4-03
28. Members noted paper 03-M4-03. Ann Frye made additional comments expanding on the report and recent developments and answered questions from members.
Review of Blue Badge Scheme
29. MIU are taking forward research on how best to implement 2 of DPTAC's recommendations made during last years Blue Badge Review.
- National Database.
- Independent London Borough schemes.
30. Both of these research projects have been approved. MIU are currently drawing up the research specification for the National Database and will consult DPTAC before going out to tender. MIU would welcome any suggestions for research contractors.
Action Point 9: MIU to consult DPTAC on Blue Badge research.
Action Point 10: DPTAC Members to suggest research contractors to Secretariat.
Review of 4 and 8mph vehicles
31. Ann Frye confirmed that there will be a wide ranging public consultation on the review, which will include DPTAC. She apologised for any confusion in this section of the written report.
Action Point 11: MIU to consult DPTAC on the forthcoming Review of 4 and 8mph vehicles.
Ground Handling and charging for disabled air passengers
32. Ann Frye informed the meeting that European Commission will be legislating on airline conditions of contract for operating which will mean that operators will not be allowed to pass on charges directly to disabled passengers. This legislation is expected to come into force in about 18 months time.
Voluntary and Community Sector
33. Jenny Meadows drew members' attention to the funding crisis which is affecting community transport in rural England. Although funding under the devolved administrations is progressing well, several good practice schemes in England had been forced to close due to lack of funding.
34. It was agreed that Jenny would circulate copies of the Community Transport Magazine with more details of the problem.
Action Point 12: Jenny Meadows to supply copies of Community Transport Magazine to the Secretariat to be circulated.
35. DPTAC will be involved in the DfT consultation taking forward Local Transport notes on cycling and walking issues.
36. David Finnegan asked if it was possible for MIU to provide feedback on a recent visit by the Social Inclusion and Diversity Branch of MIU, to see projects being run by Merseytravel's Young People & Transport Project.
Action Point 13: MIU to provide a report on the recent visit to Merseytravel's Young People and Transport project.
Agenda item 6: Working Methods
Paper 04-M4-03
37. Members considered paper 04-M4-03. Since agreeing the working methods paper at the June meeting, Some members had expressed further doubts about the proposed structure.
38. There was concern that although the 4 groups would reflect the structure of the Department, it might not be the most effective and efficient way for DPTAC to work. Concerns were also raised that the groups would not adequately engage representatives from the industry due to the combining of different areas such as the Rail Aviation and Maritime group. Some members were concerned that DPTAC's relationship with industry had diminished due to less contact since the change of working structure in 2002.
39. During discussions the members agreed that whatever the format, the groups would need to:
- reflect DPTAC's Statutory responsibility to advise Government.
- consider DPTAC strategy and not just reflect external influences.
- interact efficiently with industry.
- inform providers as well as government.
40. It was felt that the role of DPTAC was slowly changing and should reflect current circumstances and progress. For example, following the implementation of technical regulations, DPTAC should now focus on ensuring their proper implementation, operation and maintenance.
41. In summary, the committee agreed:
- Main Committee to provide strategic overview.
- Mode specific "Working Groups" to be re-established to work closely with industry. The frequency and workload of these groups would vary depending on current industry issues.
- Consider establishing a short life task group to consider the Government's 10 Year Transport Plan Review.
- Use short-life task groups to consider specific time-bound issues as and when required.
42. Neil Betteridge agreed to take members' view into consideration and redraft the DPTAC Working Structure in consultation with the Secretariat. Neil asked the Secretariat to begin the practical issues and organisation of meetings.
Action Point 14: Neil Betteridge and Secretariat to redraft DPTAC Working Structure and take forward the practical issues of setting up the working groups.
Action Point 15: Secretariat to circulate amended table.
Action Point 16: Members to complete table indicating their order of preference of Working Groups.
Action Point 17: Members to keep Secretariat informed of all external work done on DPTAC's behalf.
Agenda item 7:Concessionary fares
Paper 05-M4-03
43. Members considered paper 05-M4-03, this matter had previously been discussed at the June Main Committee Meeting.
44. Members felt that it should be made clear within the consultation that DPTAC were not doing this at the Secretary of State's request so as not to raise expectations.
45. The meeting was informed that other organisations such as the Commission for Integrated Transport (CfIT) were also looking into the issue of Concessionary Fares. Both the Scottish Executive and Welsh Assembly Government were considering proposals to extend concessionary fares.
46. Margaret Hickish informed the meeting that MACS were holding a half day session devoted to concessionary fares on 13th August.
Action Point 18: Margaret Hickish to report on MACS Concessionary Fares meeting.
47. Some members felt that the intention of the consultation was still unclear. It was suggested that the consultation should be divided into clear stages. This first stage should deal only with the collection of factual information on the availability, extent and criteria of concessionary fares. It was noted that under the Transport Act 1995, Local Authorities must provide a minimum half price concession, however the provision of an enhanced service was discretionary.
48. The results of this research would then dictate next steps, which could include a project to examine and assess the apparent low take up of concessionary fares.
49. Members felt that the consultation should be extended to include taxi card schemes, and also Community and Voluntary Transport as these are sometimes funded through concessionary fares.
50. There was agreement that the consultation process should include people with mental health problems.
51. It was agreed that the Secretariat should redraft the paper to reflect these points and amend the timescale to allow time for input from DfT Bus and Taxis Division which were responsible for Concessionary Fares.
Action Point 19: Secretariat to send copy of amended draft to DfT Buses and Taxi Division for Comment.
Agenda item 8: 'On the Move: by foot' (DFT Consultation)
Paper 06-M4-03
52. Members considered paper 06-M4-03, DPTAC's response to the Department for Transport's discussion paper on walking.
53. Members were frustrated that the Government was still consulting on this item especially since the Walking Strategy Steering Group had been set up in 1996. The general feeling was that a strategy should be agreed upon and taken forward.
54. Members agreed that the response should be strengthened to encourage the Government to define and implement a strategy.
Action Point 20: Secretariat to strengthen response to DfT's consultation on walking.
Agenda item 9: Research
55. Members were invited to suggest potential future research proposals. Ann Frye explained to members that due to the close relationship between DPTAC and MIU research programmes, it may be more appropriate for MIU to take forward some of DPTAC's proposals.
56. MIU will be considering research proposals at a meeting in September as there was a long approval process for research projects within the DfT, so bids for 2004/5 would need to be finalised by November.
Action Point 21: Members to submit any ideas for research to the Secretariat by 29th August.
Action Point 22: MIU to provide update on research at October Main Committee meeting.
57. Suggested research topics raise at and before the meeting included:
- To address skills shortages identified by Social Research Associates research.
- To investigate attitudes and knowledge of skilled labour market, i.e. builders, joiners, plumbers in their understanding and awareness of inclusive design.
- Tactile indicators within buildings and the external environment. To include the use of materials other than concrete as there was currently no research or evidence on 'trendy' materials such as brass.
- It was noted that MIU have secured funding for research into tactile indicators and that this be a joint project with ODPM.
- MIU have also received approval for a project on alternative materials.
- Minority ethnic issues and transport
- it was noted that MIU was taking forward research into the transport needs of ethnic minorities. Ann Frye informed the meeting that people with learning disabilities from ethnic minorities had been identified as a group of particular target group by the Government.
- To assess the cost and health benefits of a safe walking environment.
- It was noted that this issue would be addressed in the DfT progress report on Home Zones. DPTAC would be represented on the Home Zones Working Group.
Action Point 23: Peter Barker to provide update on Home Zones working party at October Main Committee meeting.
- To 'future plan' disabilities to ensure that we are planning for the right things. For example, to assess the impact of the projected increase in diabetes retinopathy (I million people over the next 5 years) would have on transport and the built environment.
- To assess the use of bullet proof non-reflective glass at ticket counters.
Agenda item 10: Any other business
Travel and subsistence forms.
58. Members were informed that the forms used to claim their travel and expenses had been revised. Members would need to ensure all future claims are made on these new forms as DfT Finance section would not pay any claims made on old forms. Copies of the forms can be obtained from the Secretariat.
Action Point 24: Secretariat to send out copies of the revised T&S forms to members.
Recommendations of the DPTAC Quinquenial Review
59. Ann Frye updated the meeting on recommendations of the recent Quinquenial Review. The issue of payment of members was being taken forward and would be formally discussed with DPTAC before being put to Ministers. Members were welcome to send any comments on this issue to Ann Frye in confidence.
Action Point 25: Members to send any comments on the Payment of DPTAC members to Ann Frye.
Date of next Main Committee meeting: Wednesday 1 October 2003
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