Minutes of Main Committee Meeting:
4 February 2004
Chairman:
Neil Betteridge
DPTAC Members:
Pravinkant Amin
Peter Barker
Ann Bates
Vidur Dindayal
David Finnegan
Roy Hayter
Roger Hewitt
Julie Giles
Grahame Lawson
Tom Pey
Dave Pugh
Keith Richards
Kate Smyth
Carol Thomas
Richard West
Observers:
Ann Frye - Department for Transport Mobility & Inclusion Unit
Sue Sharp - Department for Transport Mobility & Inclusion Unit
Will Bee - Disability Rights Commission
John Stirling - Assisytant Secretary of Mobility and Access Committee for Scotland
Stephen Johnston - Department for Regional Development, Northern Ireland
In Attendance:
Andy Kirby - Secretary
Sandra Duncan - Secretariat
Gary Kemp - Secretariat
Harriet Samuels - Secretariat
Verona Wiltshire - Secretariat
Lucy Buckley - British Sign Language Interpreter
Harry Wadsworth - British Sign Language Interpreter
Agenda item 1: Welcome, introductions and apologies of absence
1. Neil Betteridge welcomed DPTAC members and observers to the first meeting of the year. He assured members that his internal move to become Director of Public Affairs at Arthritis Care would not detract from his commitment to DPTAC matters.
2. Members noted apologies from Sian Baldwin, Josie Clairmont, Jean Dunlop, Jenny Meadows and Laura Smales, and from Ffion Grant in the Secretariat.
Agenda item 2: Minutes of the last meeting (3rd December 2003) Paper MM-M6-03
3. Members agreed the text of the minutes, with the addition of Roger Hewitt and Laura Smales to the list of those who had attended.
Action Point 1: Secretariat to arrange for minutes of the December 2003 previous meeting to be placed on the DPTAC website.
Agenda item 3: Matters arising (Paper 01-M1-04)
4. Neil Betteridge drew the attention of members to several items in the Matters Arising paper at 01-M1-04. He also drew their attention to the Calendar of Main Committee and Working Group Meetings for 2004 (paper 02-M1-04) that had been circulated.
E-DPTAC
5. Neil Betteridge explained that training in the e-DPTAC electronic community would be with Kudos, designers of the system. This would be deferred until after April, as e-DPTAC and other government e-communities would look and feel very different after a change to their operating system. Delaying training would prevent members having to be re-trained after the changes had taken effect. Members agreed to training days in Wilmslow (Cheshire) and Woking (Surrey), where Kudos had training suites. Members' choices would be taken into account as far as possible.
Action Point 2: Secretariat to ask members for their views on dates and venues for e-DPTAC training.
Concordat with the Disability Rights Commission (DRC)
6. The Chairs of DPTAC and DRC would sign this off in the coming week.
Action Point 3: Neil Betteridge and Bert Massie to exchange signed copies of the Concordat.
Register of Interests
7. Neil Betteridge thanked members for declaring their interests. He explained that the Register would be available to members of the public on request, and a note about its availability would be added to the DPTAC website. It would need to be updated periodically.
Action Point 4: Secretariat to publicise on the DPTAC website the availability of the Register of Members' Interests, on request.
Transport Select Committee Video
8. Neil Betteridge explained that the video of DPTAC's appearance before the Transport Select Committee on 19 November would be screened for members on the morning of the 7 April Main Committee meeting.
Action Point 5: Secretariat to arrange to screen the video of DPTAC's appearance before the Transport Select Committee for members before Main Committee on 7 April.
Agenda item 4: Letter to the Secretary of State (Paper 05-M1-04)
9. Neil Betteridge reminded members that one action point from the December meeting was that the Chair of DPTAC would write to the Secretary of State on two topics. One was DPTAC's view of the most important issues for the Department for Transport to consider in its review of the Ten Year Transport Plan. The other was issues for local authorities to consider in preparing for Disability Discrimination Act 1995 deadlines.
DPTAC's view of the most important issues for the Department for Transport to consider in its review of the Ten Year Transport Plan
10. Members agreed that the right issues had been included in the paper. They particularly welcomed the priority given to meaningful measurement of the extent to which changes that were made to transport vehicles and systems were reflected in the experience of disabled people. They noted that some issues mentioned, such as concessionary fares, would be a continuing focus of DPTAC work in the coming year. Members agreed that the draft could be improved by:
- Adding that those affected by disability vary in age, ethnicity and other characteristics;
- Making specific reference to the full range of impairments, including learning difficulties and mental health;
- Adding a reference to the pedestrian and built environment dimensions of travel;
- Making a note of the difficulty of measuring these quality of travel experience factors;
- Seeking a response from the Secretary of State on the priority that he will give to the issues DPTAC raises.
Issues for local authorities to consider in preparing for DDA deadlines
11. Members warmly thanked Grahame Lawson for his excellent draft, which it was agreed benefited from being structured around DPTAC's guiding principles. Members agreed that the draft would be further improved by:
- Clarifying the meaning of "accessibility" by reference to inclusive design;
- Referring explicitly to the need to resource access groups;
- Referring to the implications of the draft Disability Discrimination Bill in relation to the duties of local authorities;
- Inserting a reference to the importance of concessionary fares;
- Referring to the value of innovative schemes to ensure access to Shopmobilty and other demand responsive transport;
- Noting the need to disseminate good practice. The response could refer specifically to Rochdale, a local authority that had taken steps to audit and meet the needs of disabled people, and which could form the basis for a case study.
Action Point 6: Secretariat to incorporate Committee's suggestions on the two papers, with a covering letter for the Chair to send to the Secretary of State, following up their meeting.
Agenda item 5: Change in DPTAC's Planning Cycle (Paper 07-M1-04)
12. Members agreed that the change to the annual cycle should take effect at the start of the 2004-05 financial year, and Work Programmes and Annual Reports should be amended accordingly.
Action Point 7: Secretariat to make changes to Annual Report and DPTAC Work Programmes consistent with the move from a calendar to a financial year cycle.
Agenda item 6: Mobility and Inclusion Unit (MIU) Report (Paper 09-M1-04)
13. Ann Frye introduced the Mobility and Inclusion Unit (MIU) report. She explained that Department for Transport and Department of Work and Pensions officials had given evidence in closed session to the Scrutiny Committee on the draft Disability Discrimination Bill, to brief them for their work.
14. The Department for Transport was continuing to look at suitable legislative opportunities to implement the changes to the Blue Badge scheme, which ministers had accepted on the basis of DPTAC's recommendations. Ann also confirmed that research was planned to go ahead on the possibility of adding to the groups of people who can benefit from the Blue Badge Scheme, in line with DPTAC's recommendations. If this showed a clear need to add additional groups, then this could be done by Regulations.
15. She reported on a recent meeting with Brittany Ferries to discuss their policy of refusing to accept assistance dogs unless they were confined to cars. As a result of that meeting, Brittany Ferries had agreed in principle to some trials with guide dogs to assess their ability to cope with on board conditions and to work effectively. Ann thanked Peter Barker and Tom Pey for their assistance with setting up the trials.
16. The Mobility and Inclusion Unit would shortly be publishing the results of research on fear of crime on public transport. This followed up a similar piece of work carried out some years before and the results showed an increased level of concern across most groups in the population, including disabled people.
17. Ann thanked Peter Barker for agreeing to take part in a seminar for Department for Transport staff on disability issues, which was part of the Department's 'Valuing Diversity' initiative aimed at increasing awareness and understanding of staff about the transport policy implications of disability and other diversity issues.
18. In answer to questions, Ann explained that the Mobility and Inclusion Unit was collecting data to assess the economic case for audio-visual information systems on buses. Once this had been completed, ministers would be asked to consider what steps they wanted to take.
19. On wheelchair handling for air travel, she described a recent meeting at Gatwick to show wheelchair manufacturers how their products were handled as part of the baggage handling process. The Mobility and Inclusion Unit was now working with manufacturers to develop a durable label to be attached to wheelchairs, which would show handlers how to deal with such equipment. Staff training would be just as important in this, as it was in other areas of concern to DPTAC members, such as the evacuation of aircraft in emergencies.
20. She reported on a visit to the Airbus 380 project. While the design team was aware of and keen to meet disability issues, there was evidence that the needs of disabled people had not been picked up until too far into the design process. As a result, adaptations to, for example, aircraft toilets were less satisfactory than they might have been. Customer demand (from the airlines) would be important in determining the provision that would eventually be made.
21. Finally, Ann noted that the issue of airlines charging for assistance to disabled passengers was not now likely to proceed with a sector specific European Union Directive. Instead there would be a Directive covering passenger rights across all sectors. She shared DPTAC members' hope that this would not slow down the process of adopting the Directive.
Action Point 8: Mobility and Inclusion Unit to send research on fear of crime to DPTAC members when published.
Agenda item 7: Progress with Work Plan 2003-04 (Paper 06-M1-04)
22. Members noted progress with the Work Programme, particularly the successful launch of the Future Inclusive competition at the Palace of Westminster on 10 December. Neil Betteridge noted that three key rail consultations and the draft Disability Discrimination Bill were currently taking much of the Secretariat's time as these were priority issues at the moment.
Agenda item 8: Draft Work Plan 2004-05 (Paper 08-M1-04)
23. Neil Betteridge thanked members for their work at and between recent meetings, especially that of Working Group Chairs. This was a challenging programme of work, covering the priorities of both the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister, and the Department for Transport. He and the Secretariat would monitor competing pressures.
24. Members noted that some tasks, such as responding to consultation, were in fact a whole group of tasks. Ann Bates, Rail Working Group Chair, said that the many rail tasks were the result of the Strategic Rail Authority's accepting the need to consult DPTAC.
25. Members were deeply concerned at how long it took some government departments and regulators to make consultation documents available in accessible formats. Disabled people risked additional discrimination if DPTAC members and others were offered less time than others to prepare high quality advice. The Secretary explained that this concern would continue to be made clear in responses to consultations. It had been in the draft response to the draft Disability Discrimination Bill. Members agreed that meetings with Ministers and officials, the Annual Report, along with any other means at DPTAC's disposal, should be used to put this message across.
26. The Secretariat explained that the bidding process was still taking place for the research that had been proposed for two of the 2004-05 Work Programme tasks. One project was to look at how well local access groups can become involved in the development of inclusive transport and environments. This related to Task 7. The other was to review gaps in skills in professional education in accessibility. This related to Task 14. Members would be notified as soon as it was clear if either of the new research projects would go ahead.
Action Point 9: Secretariat to publish the 2004-05 Work Programme on the DPTAC website and refer to it appropriately in the draft Annual Report for 2003-04.
Agenda item 9: Draft Disability Discrimination Bill response (Paper 03-M1-04)
27. Neil Betteridge noted that DPTAC had been asked to give oral evidence to the Scrutiny Committee making recommendations to Government on the draft Disability Discrimination Bill. The Committee would report by the end of April. The Government would respond, introduce a Bill into Parliament, and, if all went well, new powers could take effect by the end of 2006. The Government would almost certainly commission the Disability Rights Commission to draft a new Transport Code.
28. Members held a wide-ranging discussion of their response, including how far to restrict comments to DPTAC's transport and built environment remit. They felt that the balance of their draft was about right but agreed the following changes:
- Consider how much emphasis can be made of the social model of disability. This would need to balanced against the need to comment on proposals to put specific conditions on the face of the bill, which was a recommendation of the Disability Rights Task Force;
- Clearly distinguish references to Regulations and to guidance, for the benefit of the Scrutiny Committee;
- Insert appropriate text from DPTAC's response to consultation on the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations;
- Refer to the unfairly high threshold of 'very much less favourable treatment', and the defence of reasonably held but erroneous beliefs, in respect of the new functions of public authorities.
Action Point 10: Secretariat to incorporate changes, for circulation to members, and signing-off by Chair in good time for the consultation deadline.
Agenda item 10: DPTAC Communication Strategy (Paper 04-M1-04)
29. This item was deferred until the next meeting. Neil Betteridge confirmed that this would not hold up progress on drafting the 2003-04 Annual Report. The Secretariat would prepare a generic PowerPoint presentation for use by DPTAC members, taking account of the 2004-05 Work Programme.
Action Point 11: Secretariat and Chair to continue work on draft Annual Report.
Action Point 12: Secretariat to prepare a generic presentation for use by DPTAC members.
Agenda item 11: Any Other Business
30. Ann Bates, Rail Working Group Chair, reported on work assisting consultants to the Strategic Rail Authority looking into the effectiveness of the Disabled Person's Reporting System (DPRS) which enables people to book assistance at rail stations. Ann was concerned that participants for the survey were being chosen exclusively from Railcard users, which could bias the sample. She asked members to volunteer to have their name put forward for the survey.
31. Will Bee (Disability Rights Commission) reported on the Ryanair case. In this case, a disabled man was required to pay to use a wheelchair at Stansted Airport. His victory meant that a number of defences against the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 failed. The judgement had also made clear that the exemption in respect of Part 3 of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 in respect of the Act was for vehicles only, and not for associated services. Ryanair was likely to seek leave to appeal.
32. The Secretariat would consult members by e-mail on their wish to hold some Main Committee meetings outside London. 4 August and/or 6 October were possible dates. Such events could include meetings with local groups of disabled people.
Action Point 13: Members to advise Secretariat by 20 February at the very latest if they wish to take part in the Disabled Person's Reporting System research.
Action Point 14: Secretariat to circulate Ryanair judgement to members.
Action Point 15: Consult Members by e-mail on their wish to hold meetings outside London.
Date of next Main Committee meeting: 1 pm, 7 April 2004, Ashdown House, Victoria Street, London.
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