Minutes of Main Committee Meeting:
7 April 2004 (Ashdown House, Westminster)

Chair:
Neil Betteridge

DPTAC Members:
Pravinkant Amin
Ann Bates
Vidur Dindayal
Jean Dunlop
David Finnegan
Roy Hayter
Roger Hewitt
Grahame Lawson
Jenny Meadows
Keith Richards
Kate Smyth
Richard West

Observers:
Chris Angell - Department for Transport Mobility & Inclusion Unit
Will Bee - Disability Rights Commission
Paul Everall - Office of the Deputy Prime Minister
Ann Frye - Department for Transport Mobility & Inclusion Unit
Ann Lyon - Scottish Executive
John Stirling - Mobility and Access Committee for Scotland
Janet Tublin - Department for Transport Mobility & Inclusion Unit

In Attendance:
Andy Kirby - Secretary
Sandra Duncan - Secretariat
Ffion Grant - Secretariat
Gary Kemp - Secretariat
Harriet Samuels - Secretariat
Verona Wiltshire - Secretariat
Jim Redfern - British Sign Language Interpreter
Harry Wadsworth - British Sign Language Interpreter
Brian Howard - Tripscope
Adam Turner - Bowne Global

Agenda item 1: Welcome, introductions and apologies of absence

1. Neil Betteridge welcomed DPTAC members and observers, including Brian Howard of Tripscope and Adam Turner, manager of the DPTAC website, who were attending for Item 8.

2. Members noted apologies from Sian Baldwin, Peter Barker, Josie Clairmont, Julie Giles, Tom Pey, David Pugh, Sue Sharp, Laura Smales and Carol Thomas.

Agenda item 2: Minutes of the last meeting (4 February 2004) Paper MM-M1-04

3. Members agreed the minutes, without amendment.

Action Point 1: Secretariat to arrange for minutes of the February 2004 previous meeting to be placed on the DPTAC website.

Agenda item 3: Matters arising (Paper 01-M2-04)

4. Members discussed several items in the Matters Arising paper at 01-M2-04.

Secretariat to ask members for their views on dates and venues for e-DPTAC training.

5. Neil Betteridge explained that e-DPTAC training had been deferred because of a delay in setting up the new software system on which e-DPTAC will function. Training could not start until the new system was in place for Members to be trained on. The Secretariat would consult members on venues and dates before the next meeting.

Action Point 2: Secretariat to ask members for their views on dates and venues for e-DPTAC training.

Secretariat and Chair to continue work on draft Annual Report.

6. Neil Betteridge reported that DPTAC had needed to give time-limited tasks such as providing evidence to the Scrutiny Committee considering the draft Disability Discrimination Bill higher priority than drafting the Annual Report. However the Secretariat would be discussing sections of the draft report on specific modes of transport and the built environment with Working Group Chairs in the next few weeks. The Secretariat planned to circulate the full draft to Members for comment before the end of April.

7. Vidur Dindayal asked about the possibility of including illustrations. Neil Betteridge reminded Members that they had decided that the emphasis of this report should be a clear and engaging publication with appeal to its audience, not just a document of record. Illustrations would certainly be considered for future reports, once Members were agreed that the right tone of text was being adopted.

Action Point 3: Secretariat to discuss mode specific and built environment sections of draft Annual Report with Working Group Chairs, and circulate the full draft to Members for comment.

Secretariat to prepare a generic presentation for use by DPTAC members.

8. Neil Betteridge reported that he had piloted a generic presentation developed by the Secretariat at Reading University where it had been well received. The Secretariat was putting the finishing touches to it, to ensure that it was self-explanatory and self-contained. As very large documents like this could block e-mail accounts with some service providers, the Secretariat would ask Members if they wished to have a copy and would send it out on CD-ROM to those who did.

Action Point 4: Secretariat to ask Members if they wished to have a copy of the generic DPTAC presentation and would send it out on CD-ROM to those who did.

Consult Members by e-mail on their wish to hold meetings outside London.

9. Members had expressed a wish to hold some meetings outside London. The Secretariat had been visiting hotels in Manchester with a view to a first meeting outside London there and would circulate further details shortly.

Action Point 5: Secretariat to advise Members of plans for a Main Committee meeting out of London.

Agenda item 4: Mobility and Inclusion Unit Report Paper 07-M2-04

10. Ann Frye introduced the Mobility and Inclusion Unit report and Members discussed several of the topics covered. Members thanked Chris Angell of the Mobility and Inclusion Unit for the new style of report, which was very clearly arranged and set out.

Scrutiny Committee
11. The draft Disability Bill had been published for pre-legislative scrutiny in December 2003. At the final evidence session on 31 March Ministers Tony McNulty and Maria Eagle gave evidence. The Scrutiny Committee had broadly welcomed the transport provisions, and would report at the end of April.

End date for rail vehicles & refurbishment regulations
12. Consultation had ended on 26 January on proposals to implement the Disability Rights Task Force recommendations on rail accessibility. Specifically, these would allow:

• Setting an end date for all rail vehicles to comply with the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations (RVAR); and
• Introducing regulations covering the refurbishment of rail vehicles.

13. The Government had proposed 2025 as an end-date. Groups representing disabled people had sought an earlier date, including the Leonard Cheshire Foundation, which had set up a postcard lobbying campaign. The industry, however, had sought a later one. The Department for Transport was now working on the detail of cost implications for a range of end-dates, and planned to bring forward draft regulations at the same time that the Disability Discrimination Bill was published.

Blue Badge Review
14. Ministers had tabled an amendment to the Traffic Management Bill. The amendment would give police officers, traffic wardens, parking attendants and civil enforcement authorities powers to inspect disabled people's parking badges. The House of Lords would consider the amendment soon after Easter, and it was expected to attract wide support. Members supported Neil Betteridge's warm thanks for many of the truly significant steps that the Department for Transport was taking on transport and disability.

• Removing the reference in law to "institutional" badges and replacing it with the less stigmatising term "organisational" Badges; and
• Implementing agreements with European Union member states for the recognition of one another's disabled persons' parking badges.

Bus Industry Training
16. The Mobility and Inclusion Unit had been working with GoSkills (formerly TransFed, the training organisation for the bus industry) and bus operators to produce a new video and other training materials. These would help bus drivers understand the requirements of the DDA, including their duties under the "Conduct" regulations. National Vocational Qualifications for drivers now had to include disability awareness training. The video, which featured DPTAC Members David Finnegan and Richard West, was nearing completion and arrangements would be made for an official launch.

Private Hire Vehicles
17. Chris Angell reported that the duty for operators and drivers of licensed private hire vehicles (PHVs) to carry assistance dogs, free of charge, had passed into law on 31 March. This duty is a result of Neil Gerrard MP's Private Members Bill and brings the trade in line with licensed taxi drivers who had been under a similar duty since 2001. Drivers with medical conditions aggravated by close proximity to dogs were able to apply for an exemption. A DfT Press Notice containing a quote from the Chair was issued to publicise the duty and the Department had produced a booklet advising assistance dog users of their new rights. This is available in large print, Braille, audio and Dos text formats.

Aviation
18. A new requirement of the pet passport scheme would have implications for assistance dogs. From 18 April such dogs would have to be allowed in aircraft cabins if that was what their owners wanted. This would apply to all carriers who had signed up to the pet passport scheme, which was a mix of British and foreign operators. The Mobility and Inclusion Unit (MIU) was negotiating with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra). Defra operated the scheme, and the MIU wished to ensure that disabled people with assistance dogs could have simple pre-flight checks on their dogs carried out in terminals, and not have to go to the Animal Reception Centre in another part of the airport.

19. Keith Richards noted that one complication was the different views being taken by national guide dog organisations as to the length of flight for which it was reasonable for a dog to remain in the cabin. Ann Frye reported that guide dog organisations in the UK were reconsidering their current limitations on flight length. The Department for Transport would be encouraging them to work towards a common internationally agreed position.

Review of 4 and 8-mph Vehicles
20. A contract had been let for the first stage of a project to review the current laws governing the construction and use of these vehicles on pavements and roads. The first draft of the Stage 1 report had been submitted for comment, with the second stage, including recommendations for any changes to current law, expected by summer 2004.

21. A wide range of options was being considered - all without commitment. These included a requirement for insurance, and some form of training. It was important not to discourage the safe use of these vehicles, which greatly increased personal mobility for many disabled people. DPTAC would be kept in close touch with the review and any recommendations arising from it. Roy Hayter and Roger Hewitt noted the danger that incautious use of electric vehicles on pavements could pose for people living with sensory impairments. Ann Bates noted that some 4- and 8-mph vehicles lacked stability on trains, and said that it should be better known that the Conditions of Carriage prohibited them.

22. In a separate exercise, the Department was continuing to work with the wheelchair manufacturing industry. The Department was exploring the possibility of marking wheelchairs that were compatible with use on particular modes of public transport. This would help users make informed choices.

DPTAC Appointments
23. The next round of DPTAC appointments was under way. The Mobility and Inclusion Unit had sent application papers to all current Members whose term of office was expiring. Neil Betteridge reported that later this year the Secretariat would bring forward proposals for the induction of new members.

Fear of crime
24. Ann Frye noted that the Mobility and Inclusion Unit's (MIU) original research on public transport passengers' perceptions of their personal security had been undertaken seven years ago. MIU had just completed a follow-up review of people's levels of concern and what might influence them to use public transport more. The report was being edited and the results would help judge what progress was being made in reducing levels of fear. The picture was mixed, concerns about drugs and vagrancy increasing, while those around lighting and graffiti were falling. Disabled people had been among those reporting particular concerns for their personal security in the original survey, and their perspective in the new survey would be separately reported on.

25. Grahame Lawson was interested in how the MIU had managed to measure fear of crime, which the Scottish Association of Chief Police Officers had considered was difficult. Anne Frye explained that it was an essentially qualitative piece of work, as fear of crime was a matter of perception and interpretation.

26. Richard West asked what the report said about the needs of disabled people, particularly those living with learning difficulties. Ann Frye explained that the report would look specifically at the needs of disabled people. More widely the MIU was following up work done with Richard in London on presenting information in pictorial and other forms for people with learning difficulties, as well as the value of travel training for transport users, and the role that local authorities Local Transport Plans could have in supporting work with this group.

27. Paul Everall of the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister brought Members attention to the Sustainable and Secure Buildings Bill. This had started as a Private Member's Bill and been adopted by the Government. The Bill would enable regulations for secure buildings to be developed for the first time. The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister would welcome DPTAC's thoughts on how this power to make regulations might be used.

Action Point 6: Built Environment Working Group to consider how the new power to make regulations on secure buildings might be used.

Community Transport
28. The Mobility and Inclusion Unit had commissioned research to look at the role of community transport in reducing social exclusion. This project would help them to understand better the full extent of community transport by auditing its distribution and evaluating its contribution to reducing social exclusion. It would also consider cross-sector benefits, and DPTAC had been invited onto the Steering Group.

Agenda item 5: Final Report on Work Plan 2003-04 (Paper 03-M2-04)

29. Neil Betteridge explained that this item has been included so that Members could clearly see how the tasks for 2003-04 related to those of 2004-05. He noted that one reason why the old plan looked so different to the new one was that the new one separated out proactive and reactive tasks, which DPTAC had agreed to do following its five-yearly review. Members agreed the paper.

Agenda item 6. Progress Report on 2004-05 Work Plan (Paper 04-M2-04)

30. Neil Betteridge reported that of the 33 tasks, only 7 had not yet started, and that none had been completed. No Work Plan could ever fully reflect the activities of an organisation, but one task not on the Work Plan which he did wish to being to the attention of Members was preparing for a meeting with a Minister from the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister. This had been scheduled for late March but had been cancelled at short notice.

31. Roy Hayter referred to the need for concessionary fares (Task 10) to take account of the links to taxi concessions. Neil Betteridge noted that, although the task was led by the Bus and Coach Working Group, the approach would be joined up and would take account of other relevant modes of transport.

32. Ann Bates noted the large number of rail tasks. These were in part a consequence of the Strategic Rail Authority realising what needed to be done before the October 2004 deadline. The Rail Working Group meeting being held soon provided the opportunity to get some of this work under way.

Agenda item 7. Draft Disability Discrimination Bill (Paper 05-M2-04)

33. Drawing on Ann Frye's remarks on the Bill (paragraph 10 above), Neil Betteridge thanked Members and the Secretariat for their work in developing two concise and effective Memoranda. He was particularly grateful for the support of Ann Bates and Grahame Lawson at the oral evidence session with the Scrutiny Committee.

34. The paper for today's meeting was largely a document of record that set out all the oral and written evidence for those who had not seen it. On the issue of defining disability, Neil noted that DPTAC had suggested that the Bill could include a power to list specific conditions by secondary legislation. This was more flexible than the current proposal to name specific conditions on the face of the Bill. The Committee Chair had put DPTAC's proposal to the Minister, who had said that it was an issue that the Government could look at.

Agenda item 8. Door to Door Website (Paper 06-M2-04)

35. Brian Howard explained that Tripscope had carried out the research for three successive editions of the Door-to-Door publication that gave travel advice for disabled people. Tripscope and DPTAC had agreed last summer to work together on a web-based version of this guidance. The website would be easier and cheaper to update than the former paper version, and material could be presented more flexibly.

36. The site would offer a 'one stop shop service' for travel information for disabled people, covering all transport services. It would provide comprehensive information for people making specific enquiries. It would also help with planning whole journeys using one or more modes of transport. Where appropriate it would direct visitors to other organisations (especially via website links). The site would be regularly updated, and single hard copies would be made available on demand. However the emphasis would be on people obtaining information directly from the site. A flier introducing the site would be available in hard copy and a range of alternative formats.

37. The principles on which the website had been developed were that: it would signpost people to other sites offering more specific information; it would take an "all or none" approach to naming service providers; and it would provide an opportunity for users to provide constructive feedback.

38. Members wanted to be sure that the site would cater for the needs of disabled people. Adam Turner assured Members that it would meet published standards of accessibility with appropriate use of colour, and with a text-only version available. Members would have the opportunity to join a small group that would meet to ensure that the site was presented in a way that made it as clear as possible to users.

39. Brian explained that the site would contain information on each type of transport. It would also have a section on travelling through London, as so many people's travel plans involved this. Members wondered if other major cities could also be included. This could be added in at a later date. One advantage of a website was that it could be easily extended in this way.

40. Members agreed to feed any detailed comments on the text to the Secretariat. They also agreed to launching the site at the Mobility Roadshow (17-19 June, Donnington) and the Mobility Roadshow Scotland (9-10 July, Edinburgh). The Mobility and Access Committee for Scotland would be invited to support this process in Scotland.

Action Point 7: Members to advise Secretariat of any suggestions on the text of the Door-to-Door site.

Action Point 8: Members to put their names forward to the Secretariat if they wish to join the group that will meet to ensure that the Door-to-Door site is presented in a way that made it as clear as possible to users.

Action Point 9: Secretariat to set in hand arrangements for the launch of the Door-to-Door site at the England (17-19 June, Donnington) and Scotland (9-10 July, Edinburgh) Mobility Roadshows, inviting the Mobility and Access Committee for Scotland to support this process in Scotland.

Agenda item 9. DPTAC Communication Strategy (Paper 04-M1-04 circulated for February meeting)

41. Neil Betteridge explained that this item had been deferred from the previous meeting, due to the large amount of more urgent business to be dealt with. While strategies like this were not urgent, they were important, and this one aligned the promotional routes and opportunities open to DPTAC more clearly than before with the audiences it was seeking to reach. Jenny Meadows suggested the inclusion of a clear statement of how and when the strategy would be reviewed.

Action Point 10: Members to advise Secretariat of any suggestions for amending the DPTAC Communication Strategy.

42. Neil also reminded Members that the statements that they made to the media in its many forms were an important way of promoting the work of DPTAC. These opportunities could be maximised if Members ensured that they agreed them and what they planned to say and write with the Secretariat. The Secretariat would give the clearance of such material a high priority. This would ensure consistency and provide an opportunity for the Secretariat to make potentially helpful suggestions for additional points.

Action Point 11: Members to advise Secretariat of any requests for articles, interviews or quotations.

43. Neil also advised Members that a BBC team was researching a forthcoming half-hour disability themed programme to air on BBC2 this autumn, and was looking for potential topics and story ideas. The programme will air as part of a cross channel disability season and they hoped to begin filming in the early summer. The subject matter would be open ended and the team would welcome any ideas fitting into the theme of disability. It could be anything ranging from a problem that many disabled people are facing, to a particularly captivating narrative story of an individual living with disability, or any other topic of interest. Members were invited to submit any ideas to the Secretariat, described in no more than 200 words.

Action Point 12: Members to advise Secretariat of any ideas for a new BBC2 disability themed programme.

44. Neil Betteridge reported that Carol Thomas, who could not be present, had asked DPTAC to consider one issue. This was what activities DPTAC might become involved in to mark the October date for the remaining Disability Discrimination Act Part III provisions, on making physical adjustments to the provision of goods and services.

45. Will Bee of the Disability Rights Commission explained that the DRC would certainly be marking the occasion with photo-opportunities and other activities designed to reach TV and the tabloids. This would be part of the second phase of the "Open for All" campaign targeted at disabled people, including the 52% who fell into the definition of disabled people but did not consider themselves as such.

46. The DRC would have to move on from the subject quickly, as it had another campaign on employment rights starting in November. Members wished to ensure that any such promotional activity supported other DPTAC priorities. They considered that a possible role for DPTAC might be to help to maintain the momentum, particularly in the context of the Disability Discrimination Bill when it was published in 2005.

Action Point 13: Secretariat to liaise with Disability Rights Commission on opportunities to support DRC's promotional activities in October.

Agenda Item 10: Any Other Business

47. There being no other business, Neil Betteridge thanked Members and observers for their contributions, and closed the meeting.

Date of next Main Committee meeting: 13.00, 2 June 2004, Ashdown House, 123 Victoria Street, London SW1.