Minutes of the DPTAC Main Committee Meeting:
01 March 2006

Chair:
Neil Betteridge

DPTAC Members:
Pravinkant Amin
Ann Bates
Sean Bolton
Josephine Clairmont
Vidur Dindayal
Jean Dunlop
David Finnegan
Roger Hewitt
Grahame Lawson
Judith Jesky
Jenny Meadows
Alan Norton
Tom Pey
Katherine Phipps
Keith Richards
Kate Smyth
Carol Thomas

Observers:
Will Bee - Disability Rights Commission
Ann Frye - Department for Transport Mobility Inclusion Unit
Helen Cameron - Scottish Executive
Miranda Carter - Department for Transport Mobility & Inclusion Unit
Ian Humes - Department for Regional Development Northern Ireland
Barbara Vincent - Department for Work and Pensions
Jean Wilson - Mobility and Access Committee for Scotland

Invitees:
Caroline Gooding - Disability Rights Commission

In Attendance:
Andy Kirby - Secretary
Sandra Duncan - Secretariat
Michael Parsons - Secretariat
Harriet Samuels - Secretariat
Anthony Youngman - (Michael's support worker)
David Hewitt - Interpreter
Paula Donovan - Interpreter
Anna Stoddard - Palantypist

Agenda item 1: Welcome, introductions and apologies

1. DPTAC Chair Neil Betteridge welcomed everyone to the first Main Committee meeting of 2006. .

2. The meeting received apologies from DPTAC members Josie Clairmont , Judith Jeskey, Tomi Jones. Jean Dunlop, Alan Norton, Tom Pey, Carol Thomas and Richard West. Neil welcomed Michael Parsons, and his assistant Anthony Youngman, who had recently joined the Secretariat, and Miranda Carter who had recently taken over as Head of the Mobility and Inclusion Unit.

Agenda item 2: Minutes of previous Main Committee meeting (7th December 2006)

3. The Secretariat had been notified of two amendments. On the first page, Jean Wilson should be added to the list of attendees and at the bottom of page 11, members agreed to qualify rather than remove references to "concessions".

4. Members approved the amendments and the Secretariat would place them on the DPTAC website.

Action point 1: Secretariat to place the minutes of 7 December 2005 Main Committee meeting on the DPTAC website.

Agenda item 3: Matters Arising

5. Neil Betteridge noted that Transport Minister Karen Buck had announced that she would be shortly resigning as a Minister. DPTAC and the Department had no news as to the timing of her replacement or who would take on the job.

6. Neil brought members' attention to a letter form Peter Hendy following up his appearance at the December meeting. Members agreed that Neil would write thanking Peter and raising two further issues: the absence of alarms on the outside of London buses linked to ramp deployment, and any Transport for London incentives for good customer care for disabled passengers by staff.

Action point 2: Chair to reply to Peter Hendy drawing his attention to the absence of alarms on the outside of London buses linked to ramp deployment, and also asking about Transport for London's practice on offering incentives for good customer care for disabled passengers by staff.

Agenda item 4: Mobility and Inclusion Unit Report

7. Miranda Carter introduced the report and noted some further developments. Before presenting her report, Miranda gave a brief outline of her previous career and her objectives for the MIU. She particularly wished to promote synergy between the disability policy and the social exclusion work of the MIU, and to take forward mainstreaming inclusion policy across the Department for Transport.

8. Miranda advised members that the Review of 4 & 8 mph scooters had been published on the 28th February. Miranda also agreed to come back to members with a report on progress with research on the carriage of buggies on buses.

9. Miranda noted that Ministers had accepted the payment of DPTAC members in principle. She was disappointed that the department had not yet identified a suitable legislative slot, and said that it remained one of her priorities to do so, possibly in the Finance Bill.

10. Members were advised that a paper on social exclusion would shortly be presented to the Department for Transport Board. In addition Miranda agreed the MIU would provide DPTAC with a presentation, either at the next Main Committee Meeting or Bus, Coach and Community Transport Working Group meeting, on the role community transport plays in reducing social exclusion, following research in this area.

11. Miranda apologised to members for not including a report on progress with bus accessibility, and said she would make sure one was prepared and circulated, if possible with the minutes.

12. Ann Bates welcomed the opportunity she had been given to take part in the on-train safety work and thought the links Department for Transport have with industry could pay dividends.

13. In response to a question on a seminar which had been held on the transport needs of minority ethnic groups, Miranda agreed it would be a good idea to have a follow up conference to review progress and committed the MIU to organise it.

Action point 3: Mobility and Inclusion Unit to explore scope for a further conference on the transport needs of minority ethnic and faith communities, this time to include Transport for London.

Action point 4: Mobility and Inclusion Unit to report to DPTAC on progress with research on the carriage of buggies on buses, and on wider aspects of bus accessibility.

Action point 5: Mobility and Inclusion Unit to identify a legislative opportunity in the Finance Bill to make provision for payment to DPTAC members.

Action point 6: Mobility and Inclusion Unit to arrange for presentation of its research on the role of Community Transport in reducing social exclusion (either at next Main Committee or Bus, Coach and Community Transport Working Group).

Agenda item 5: Report on the Disability Rights Commission's Codes

14. Will Bee presented members with an oral report on the DRC's codes. The Part 3 Supplement on the Provision and Use of Transport Vehicles had been laid before Parliament on the 23rd January. Hard copies should be available from the 11th April and the parliamentary launch would be on the 18th April.

15. The Part 3 Code of Practice had just been passed to the Department of Works and Pensions for comment. The Code was to go to Ministers at the end of March and the DRC hoped to lay it before Parliament in early June.

Agenda item 6: Reports from Chairs of Working Groups

16. Grahame Lawson advised members that the position paper on Road User Charging had been amended to reflect previous comments from members. It was agreed Neil Betteridge would write to the Secretary of State inviting him to welcome the position paper in a DPTAC press release.

17. Jenny Meadows presented a report from the Bus, Coach and Community Transport Working Group, which had met the previous week. She also presented a discussion paper on "Recommendations for extending concessionary fares across local authority boundaries and widened to include community transport services". This was agreed to be published and taken forward, with the substitution of "this" for "next" in the first sentence.

Action point 7: Chair to write to Secretary of State asking (i) to present the DPTAC road user charging position paper, (ii) him to welcome it in a DPTAC Press notice, (iii) him to promote it within the Department, and (iii) the department to bring it to the attention of appropriate staff and in particular the applicants to the Transport Innovation Fund.

Action point 8: Secretariat to publish concessionary fares discussion paper on the website and members to bring it to the attention of Ministers and other stakeholders.

Agenda item 7: Progress Report on Work Programme

18. Members noted with approval; the level of progress with the Work Programme for 2005-06, which was drawing to a close.

Agenda item 8: DPTAC Strategy Day

19. DPTAC Chair Neil Betteridge thanked members for contributing towards an excellent day. Much of what was discussed could be taken forward. However, two strategic proposals from the day did seem to pull DPTAC in two different directions, and he invited members to discuss which option DPTAC should pursue.

20. The first was to raise the profile of DPTAC as a possible resource to organisations of disabled people. The second option was to raise the role of DPTAC as a pre-consultee for the Department of Transport.

21. In discussion members agreed that there could be benefits in DPTAC having a slightly lower overall profile with external bodies, but greater impact on policy formulation within the Department of Transport, as opposed to a high profile externally but less influence internally. The strategy members agreed to adopt was to seek to increase the role of DPTAC as a pre-consultee for the Department for Transport.

22. Members suggested that one simple way DPTAC could be a better resource would be by adding a question and answer section to the DPTAC website drawing on advice given to callers.

23. Members also agreed that the Chair and Secretariat would prepare a draft strategy consultation document for discussion at the next meeting.

Action point 9: Secretariat to post frequently asked questions and answers on the DPTAC website.

Action point 10: Chair and Secretary to produce a draft strategy consultation document for discussion at June Main Committee. Draft to include considering raising DPTAC's role as a pre-consultee for the Department for Transport.

Agenda item 9: Work Programme 2006-07

24. Members discussed the draft work plan. Following on from the last item, they agreed to accept the Chair's proposal to add a new generic task reviewing existing guidance, and to delete those tasks relating to specific publications.

25. Members also agreed to delete from the Work Programme the task relating to identifying restrictions on the carriage of disabled people in relation to numbers/seating locations imposed by UK and European Legislation, Regulations, Guidance and individual airline policies. This followed advice from the Chair of the Aviation Working Group Keith Richards that this was being taken forward at a European level.

26. Members agreed the draft Work Programme. The Secretariat will incorporate the agreed changes and circulate to members before publishing on the website.

Action point 11: Secretariat to incorporate changes to Work Programme for 2006-07 for final circulation, sign off by Chair, and publish on the DPTAC website.

Agenda item 10: Scottish Executive Consultation on proposed Scottish Transport Users' Committee

27. Helen Cameron from the Scottish Executive outlined their proposals on setting up a new Scottish Public Transport Users Committee.

28. Helen explained the Executive's thoughts on how to achieve its objectives, what the working group would look like and what their remit should be are still developing.

29. Fitting MACS into a mode specific approach would be difficult; as would reserved areas issues such as rail and air where there would continue to be UK-wide representative bodies.

30. Jean Wilson for MACS advised members that MACS objected to both options from the draft consultation. MACS objective is to advise Ministers, and they do not consider themselves to be either a user or a representative body. To that extent they could not sign up to DPTAC's proposal in its current form.

31. Following the discussion, it was agreed to review DPTAC's response to the consultation to reflect the discussion, and publish agreed text on the DPTAC website.

Action point 12: Secretariat to review DPTAC response to the Scottish Executive's consultation on proposed Scottish Public Transport Users' Committee to reflect discussion, send to Scottish Executive, and publish on the DPTAC website.

Agenda item 11: Disability Rights Commission consultation on the definition of disability

32. Caroline Gooding of the Disability Rights Commission advised members that the DRC's proposed draft definition of disability is far broader than the current definition.

33. Caroline advised members she had deliberately avoided drafting the definition to read as an academic discussion on the social model of disability. The definition used in the 1995 Disability Discrimination Act had been criticised, and the Joint Scrutiny Committee on the Disability Discrimination Bill had asked the DRC to draft a replacement.

34. The new definition could provide protection for anyone with any level of impairment, without having to show a long-term or substantial impact on functional ability, unlike at present.

35. Members expressed some concerns that the broad definition could have the effect of trivialising disability in the eyes of some people, by greatly increasing the number of people to whom it could apply. Others thought the new definition might benefit some 'groups' of disabled people at the expense of others.

36. As a result of the discussion, members asked the Secretariat to amend the draft response to the DRCs consultation to reflect comments made during the meeting.

Action point 13: Secretariat to review DPTAC response to the Disability Rights Commission consultation on definition of disability to reflect discussion and send to the Disability Rights Commission and publish on the DPTAC website.

Agenda item 12: Research evaluating the effectiveness of DPTAC's guidance on large passenger ferries and terminals

37. DPTAC Chair Neil Betteridge thanked Jean Dunlop and the Maritime Working Group for seeing through such good, clear research.

38. Neil advised members that Ministers have said they are prepared to lift the Part 3 DDA exemption for passenger ships if the voluntary code can be shown not to be working. The research recommends lifting the exemption.

39. Neil also advised members that publishing the research itself, and the other recommendations, should help improve access to passenger ships for disabled people.

40. Members endorsed the recommendations of the research, and agreed that Neil should write to the Secretary of State advising him DPTAC is publishing research evaluating the effectiveness of DPTAC's guidance on large passenger ships and terminals and inviting him for a quote for a press notice.

41. Neil will also ask the Minister for an opportunity to present the findings to him and seek a prompt decision on removing the Part III exemption.

Action point 14: Chair to write to Secretary of State, advising him that DPTAC will publish Research evaluating the effectiveness of DPTAC's guidance on large passenger ferries and terminals on website, and ask for a quote for the press notice, and an opportunity to present the findings to him, with a view to a prompt decision on lifting the Part 3 exemption for maritime services.

Agenda item 13: Any Other Business

42. Members agreed to send Ann Frye a bouquet of flowers to thank her for her tireless work on behalf of disabled people for over twenty years.

Action point 15: Secretariat to arrange for Ann Frye to receive flowers from the Committee to show appreciation of her dedication and support to DPTAC.

Date of next Main Committee meeting: 14 June 2006, Great Minster House

DPTAC Secreteriat
March 2006